[arbawk]

How would you define "intrinsic value"? This would imply that things have value whether or not humans agree they have value. Money itself should not have any value from utility other than being money.

> It doesn’t seem to have a path towards becoming a global medium of exchange

Money is layered. The Fedwire is not a global medium of exchange, nor was gold. But as the base layer that scales with solutions like the Lightning Network and others, Bitcoin has the obscene advantage of being digital, decentralized, and salable across space and time.

All value is inherently speculative - you likely speculate that your fiat savings won't inflate away rapidly. What is being speculated upon is that Bitcoin is an improvement upon the monetary system.

[jljljl]

It’s true that prices fluctuate and vary, but some assets are less speculative than others. Gold has value for its industrial or commercial uses, even if that’s a small part of its value. USD has value over other assets as a currency because of its status as legal tender within the US, meaning I know I can pay taxes and discharge debts with it.

It’s not clear to me that the advantages you described are “obscene” compared to USD or other assets, and I’m not sure people buying Bitcoin are buying because they think it’s a “better monetary system”. I think they’re buying it because it’s a hot speculative asset at a time when rates are still fairly low.

I’m also not sure what “salable across time and space means”

[arbawk]

It means my money (in Bitcoin) can be accepted anywhere that can receive data, and preserved without information loss over time. Gold cannot be transmitted over space as information, fiat does not preserve its share of value over time because of inflation/debasement.

I can leave my country tomorrow with my wealth stored as a 12 word phrase in my head and exchange it into local currency in practically any country in the world. That among many other incredible properties give Bitcoin significant advantages over any other money. You can programmatically transfer real wealth - not credit - with Bitcoin. Look the Lightning Network to see how money can be streamed each second, with finality. There are many reasons Bitcoin as a base layer, instead of fiat, will reward its network participants.

[salawat]

You... Realize fiat actually has the same property? In fact, Gold changed hands at the speed of data too.

Banking became a thing because merchants realized an IOU was as good as the thing itself. Chuck the bullion in a vault, then maintain a ledger of who it belongs to, and as long as the numbers check out on both sides, donezo. Heck, get your timing right, and you don't even have to move any or wait on the other guy to come get it.

Don't even need an electrical grid or semiconductor fabs. Just a sheet of paper, a vault, and decree something to be a store of value to chuck into it. Then don't think too hard about it, or else your society gets infected by the economics.

All downhill from there... Notbin' worth seein' down that rahd.

The major issue with transactions right now is that a whole lotta people want to be able to track any exchange of value period. Bitcoin actually gives them that wish. Personally? I'll accept wait times for privacy if everyone else would get with the program so we could kick VISA et al. to the curb.

[ur-whale]

> an IOU was as good as the thing itself.

Except it isn't (for many reasons, chief among which is counterparty risk).

But the banks and the merchants sure brainwashed everyone into accepting this as a tenet of the modern economy.

They event went quite a step further with fractional reserve: we all know there's only 25% of the actual stuff in the vaults, but still ... the IOUs are 1:1.

Until, of course, when the "faith threshold" is reached, they aren't anymore.

[jcpham2]

If I had to hazard a gues about scale: 8 decimal places is 10 million units. Physical objects cannot be divided into 10 million pieces, shared, and circulated as a pseudo-currency.

I’ll stick my foot in my further and say space is a speed of light or the limitations on data transmissions vs. once again, a physical thing being used as a medium of exchange.

Speculative or not.

[Der_Einzige]

Uhh, you can burn cash for warmth. Coins can be used for games. They have "intrinsic " value regardless of their status as currency. That intrinsic value may be very low, but it's not nothing.