[josh_fyi]

Foreign powers did not create Israel. Jews did.

> carved out a new action state to give to Native Americans I rather like the idea that Native Americans could have their own country if they choose, as Jews do now, something better than reservations. China and Russia have nothing to do with it.

[arken]

Forgive me, but that’s a pretty one sided view to take.

The local Jewish population was certainly instrumental as were Zionist groups in the UK and elsewhere. But you’re fooling yourself if you think great power diplomacy and the region’s colonial history weren’t also important factors.

I’d encourage you to look into the history of the British mandate, the Balfour Declaration, and the lead up to the 1947 Partition Plan/1948 War. It’s a fascinating story if nothing else.

[NeverFade]

The British mandate authorities outlawed all Jewish defense forces and tried to confiscate all arms from the Jewish population before they left the region. They also actively prevented Jews from immigrating to Israel:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Paper_of_1939

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/british-restrictions-on...

To claim that the British were "a foreign power" that helped the budding nation of Israel is, simply put, the opposite of historical fact.

[arken]

That doesn’t mean the British state played no role. Are you saying the Balfour Declaration had no impact on developments in the region from 1917-1947?

I’m not saying the formation of Israel was 100% the result of intentional British foreign policy. Foreign policy is messy and inconsistent. The various actors in the region were seeking different things at different times.

Yes the British were in some cases trying to disarm Jewish militants, but in many cases they were also the ones who had handed out the arms in the first place (eg. The Jewish Brigade).

I don’t see how you can dispute that this a messy, contested historical saga with many factors to consider.

I urge you to read more widely on this topic. If you’re so certain that your position is the correct one, you stand only to confirm your existing beliefs.

[NeverFade]

> Are you saying the Balfour Declaration had no impact on developments in the region from 1917-1947?

Not much, no. It was largely a symbolic act. Actual British policy remained hostile to the establishment of a Jewish state in Israel.

The fact is, that besides this exceptional, purely symbolic act, the British Empire as a foreign power did all it could to prevent the successful establishment of a Jewish nation in Israel.

> The Jewish Brigade

The Jewish Brigade was part of the British Army, a brigade of Jewish volunteers.

It is true that some individuals who served in that brigade ended up joining Israeli groups that eventually formed the IDF, but these were individual acts by individuals, and by no means an expression of a policy by the British Empire or any other foreign power.

> I urge you to read more widely on this topic.

I'm not sure well read you are on the topic, when your only example of a "foreign power" helping the nation of Israel in its inception is... the Jewish Brigade.

Did you know it was a brigade of individual volunteers within the British Army? If you did, I don't think you'd cite it as an example.

You didn't cite any other example, either.

[Apocryphon]

https://sofrep.com/news/orde-wingate-special-night-squads-id...

[NeverFade]

From your link:

> In September of 1936, Wingate was posted to Palestine as an intelligence officer with the British Mandate. His obsession with the Bible had a profound effect on his views during this posting, turning him into an ardent Zionist and supporter of the idea of a Jewish state.

So this is yet another example of individual actions based on his personal convictions, not of the British Empire acting at the state level.

Compare that to the British official support of other military and paramilitary groups, such as the Arab Legion:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Legion

These examples shows substantial evidence for the British Empire itself formally supporting groups that _fought_ Israel. Indeed the Arab Legion was among the chief military forces to attack Israel in 1948:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bagot_Glubb

> During the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, the Arab Legion was considered the strongest Arab army involved in the war.[3] Glubb led the Arab Legion across the River Jordan to occupy the West Bank (May 1948). Despite some negotiation and understanding between the Jewish Agency and King Abdullah, severe fighting took place in Kfar Etzion massacre (May 1948), Jerusalem and Latrun (May–July 1948).

John Bagot Glubb was a British officer in official capacity leading a force trained and commanded by other British officers to a fight against Israel.

[reissbaker]

The British government opposed the creation of the State of Israel and its armies fought alongside the armies of Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan during the 1948 war in an attempt to destroy the state. The US disavowed the 1948 partition plan, which in part led to the Arab and British invasion. The country that provided military support to the nascent Jewish state was not the capitalist West that had previously exerted military authority over the region: it was the USSR under Stalin, as part of an effort to destabilize the British. The USSR was in fact the first country to recognize the State of Israel (ironically, given later alliances in the Middle East). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union_and_the_Arab%E2...

I urge you to read more widely on this topic. If you're so certain that your position is the correct one, you stand only to confirm your existing beliefs.

[0x49fa98]

that must be why the Mizrahi are treated so well in their own country

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizrahi_Jews#Disparities_and_i...