[cwwc]

Yes, the toilets in Taiwan are great —- and free. They have masses of public toilets in park, along with cleaning attendants. But here is the rub —- in the US, they would be overrun with homeless (I’m not saying this is bad; just that it would be the reality) while in TW the people who are attending to them would likely be homeless were they in the US. Is part of this cultural? Yep, probably. Is part of it structural? I think so —- because there are roles for people in TW, the “lowest rung” of society, while the only role stateside is along the side of the road or perhaps a MCD worker.

[airhead969]

America has extreme homelessness not as a cause of problems but as a symptom of neglect, exploitation, and a widespread lack of concern for fellow human beings. Fix homelessness and there will be fewer encampments and less nasty situations involving public and private infrastructure. It's cheaper to solve it at the core (housing) than prolong it and treat just some of the symptoms by throwing heaps of money at pernicious fallout areas like emergency rooms.

[astrea]

I don't understand this argument in American politics ("If we build something nice, those no good poor people will just ruin it!") and I especially don't understand it in this context. Unless my memory is far worse than I imagined, there are free toilets everywhere in the US (not so much now with COVID restrictions) and they're not all overrun with homeless. Have you never been to a public beach?

[dheera]

> there are free toilets everywhere in the US

Really? I mean, if you're at an indoor venue like a Walmart or a museum, sure, but I can vouch for California being an extremely painful place to take a long walk across town. In SF every goddamn toilet in the Richmond district, Sunset district, Noe valley, Daly City, and everywhere outside the tourist hotspots are "customers only".

In LA it's even worse. Miles of streets even in the poshest neighborhoods with zero toilets. Once had to ask my GF to get access to a restaurant toilet and secretly let me in because if you're male they're usually for "customers only" but if you're female you get to use them.

[meetups323]

Many public toilets in the US close at night, especially in big cities.

[adrianN]

I believe public toilets that are "overrun by homeless" would be an improvement over pavements used by homeless because they don't have access to toilets. Perhaps we should add some showers to public toilets as well?

[dheera]

Totally agree with this. Everyone has to poop, if you don't give them a place to do it, it's still going to come out, and it seems people don't get this basic logic when they complain about poo on the streets of SF.

[Anon1096]

Have you been to Taiwan outside of Taipei? The toilet situation is pretty dreadful, with most being squat toilets in really gross conditions. Thank God for 7-11 because most of the time they have decent toilets, but if there's no convenience stores nearby you better be willing to squat. Granted, they do exist, which is obviously better than them not existing, but I think your comment reflects Taipei more than most of the island.

[alisonkisk]

What are those roles in in TW? McD employees, for all their troubles, are well above "pooping in the park" in economic comfort.

[mc32]

The lowest rung there are the recyclers. They pick up recyclable trash (kind of like the trash bin ladies do in SF but unlike SF don't leave a strewn mess). They rummage through dumpsters looking for recyclable items, take them to places which can recycle them for pennies, but it's enough to survive.

It's kind of like if you had people redeeming bottles and cans and lived in section-8 housing.

But these people are going around in third hand bikes pulling hand fashioned carts, sometimes the carts are human driven if they don't have a bike.

The big difference is there is no shame in being a recycling collector, but there is shame in being a burden to society.

[airhead969]

There are recyclable miners in the US anywhere container redemption value is charged and reclaimable.

The rich in the US don't have any shame paying little if any taxes, buying tax loopholes, and corrupting government to get more socialism for themselves and removing it and economic fairness from everyone else.

[aspaceman]

In terms of homeless folks I’ve met in the US, they do the same.

They just use the money to buy drugs / alcohol and sleep outside because the recycling money isn’t enough for rent, but it’ll get you fucked up enough you won’t care.