[throwaway98234]

My experience, PhD, 10 years postdoc, 10 years in startups (all in UK).

I actually didn't get any hassle as a PhD student, possibly since I was a mature student and wouldn't take any shit, I didn't need to get into any fights but I was willing to and I guess that comes out as confidence.

As a postdoc I experienced several attempts at bullying, all worked out in my favour as I was sensible enough to join the union on my first day at work. I'd say that 90-95% of tenured academics are reasonable and often pleasant people, but high-achievement does also tend to attract a proportion of arseholes, and it's pretty random as to whether you come in to contact with them. How you handle it is up to you of course, I always fight back. The union is your friend.

I find that startups are much more mellow places to work, finding an aggressive and unpleasant manager seems to be really quite exceptional; businesses tend to have "processes" in place in a way that academia just doesn't. An aggressive manager is quickly identified as a bad manager and then an ex-manager, they can't just claim "I'm really clever so suck it up" in the same way as in academe.

I don't regret being a postdoc at all, I met a load of interesting people and worked on a lot of interesting projects. But it's not the whole of the world. I'd recommend exploration of the rest.

[tabtab]

Re: "I actually didn't get any hassle as a PhD student, possibly since I was a mature student and wouldn't take any shit, I didn't need to get into any fights but I was willing to and I guess that comes out as confidence."

That's part of general "people skills". Many of us in STEM have a shortage of them, to be honest, and thus it's a "solution" that's not always easy to come by.

[drill_bit]

Would you mind elaborating on the attempted bullying, how you dealt with it, and especially the role of the union? It could be useful information for others.

[jkhdigital]

> I actually didn't get any hassle as a PhD student, possibly since I was a mature student and wouldn't take any shit

I’m currently getting a PhD in my late 30s and the contrast is pretty funny sometimes... I keep asking my advisor if he regrets accepting me as a student lol

[angrais]

10 years postdoc? Jeeze! What field were you in?

[throwaway98234]

Maths. Yeah it's a while but I was having fun; at the end of each 2-3 year contract someone would say "would you be interested ..." and I'd take it up. While my work was pretty solid, it wasn't stellar and I didn't really publish enough to warrant a lecturer post, I realised that early on. I once met a woman who'd been doing non-standard analysis (which is both left-field and old-school) as a postdoc for years and I asked her if she saw a future in it, "not really, but while the music plays, I will dance".