[yrgulation]

This will get downvotes but its worth it.

Another reason for your Ukraine friends not wanting to move to Germany is because in one single comment you somehow made it clear that your cleaner is an African refugee and that Ukraine is poorer. Let that sink in.

The question I would ask is why is there less demand in the EU for software engineers. The fact is software startups in europe are pretty small compared to the US and UK. For instance german VC investment in tech startups vs british investment is significantly lower [1]. The rest of the eu is even smaller on a country by country basis. The eu tries covering that gap with government grants and eu funds which rarely produce much return in tech. The EU as a whole doesnt have the culture of risk needed for startups to thrive. We are safer with the same car makers since ww2, same tv manufacturers, and having a law for everything. We dont want amazons, facebooks, and googles around here because they kill our small shops, violate our privacy, and teslas threaten our precious diesel engines.

So if we want higher salaries in the eu, and germany included, we need to loosen things up a bit to let startups “break” things and have vcs invest in them.

Or you could simply immigrate to east europe or the uk to either earn more or live a better life.

1. https://www.altfi.com/article/7458_london-tech-firms-receive...

[caskstrength]

> Another reason for your Ukraine friends not wanting to move to Germany is because in one single comment you somehow made it clear that your cleaner is an African refugee and that Ukraine is poorer. Let that sink in.

I am a software engineer from Ukraine. Why do you assume I should get offended by these factual statements made by the OP?

[lonesword]

I am neither Ukrainian nor African, and I am not happy with the "African refugee cleaner" comment either. Was specifying that the cleaner was "African" really necessary?

[caskstrength]

I guess their point was that first generation immigrant without higher education can make more money doing menial work than sw engineer. Don't know if it true in Germany or OP was just exaggerating.

[yrgulation]

> I am a software engineer from Ukraine. Why do you assume I should get offended by these factual statements made by the OP?

I salute your confidence - I genuinely do. However, the statement is factually wrong.

You, as a software developer in Ukraine are unlikely to be "poor"[1] yet OP makes an attempt at enforcing that stereotype. By factoring in the cost of living, you are quite "rich".

Anecdotally, I spoke to someone from Romania a few years back when they were made an offer at Microsoft in London. They point blank refused an 80k GBP salary + bonus because, despite a lower income in Romania, their disposable income and quality of life was higher.

Some German immigrants to Romania, working at Ubisoft Bucharest, I was told, are quite impressed about how much more they earn compared to Germany.

After doing a bit of research I can see that salaries are indeed higher. Another anecdote may be that I wanted to hire someone remote for a UK contract and the daily rate was not much lower (it is lower if you factor in no VAT for intra EU invoicing, and lower agency fees and office costs / desk, but in practical terms its not). Some of the people working in IT in east Europe genuinely have a higher standard of living than in Germany. Compared to London the story is a bit different, but you rarely hear about a software engineer in their 30s, in east europe, living with "flatmates" because they cant afford their own property.

So really, I would reject stereotypes, particularly when they are not based on reality. Sure Ukraine overall has financial difficulties, but that stereotype simply doesn't apply to people in the context of our debate.

1. https://elitex.systems/blog/software-developers-salaries-us-...

[caskstrength]

> You, as a software developer in Ukraine are unlikely to be "poor"[1] yet OP makes an attempt at enforcing that stereotype. By factoring in the cost of living, you are quite "rich".

To me it looks like you and OP are in agreement because this is exactly what he said: "Even my friends from Ukraine (which is a much poorer country) don't want to move there, because in Ukraine they only pay 5% taxes and cost of living is much lower. So they can afford a much better life comparing to German developers."