[G3rn0ti]

> major problems such as the energy consumption issues

You don’t seem to know much about crypto currencies to name energy usage as a real problem of crypto.

While Bitcoin will keep it’s “proof of work” approach to mining in the foreseeable future, there are now quite a few alternative crypto currencies in circulation employing “proof of stake” that do not suffer from large computer power usage e.g. Cardano, Solana or Algorand just to name a few. Furthermore, Ethereum, the second largest Crypto currency in circulation, plans to migrate to “proof of stake” by 2022. Stakes are already online.

So please inform yourself before stating that Crypto will destroy the planet. No one is forcing you to like Bitcoin but you need to keep in mind this project has been invented over 13 years ago. It would have been impossible for the creator to anticipate its popularity and fix all its technical issues including energy consumption.

[zucker42]

If you think that proof of stake will take over, do you think that Bitcoin will crash? When will Bitcoin stop having the insane environmental impact it has now? If proof of stake is the future, why is the market cap of BTC so high compared to other cryptocurrencies?

[G3rn0ti]

Well, Bitcoin was the first of its kind, it’s time and battle tested and technically it might still be the most reliable of all cryptos. Part of the reason for that is “Bitcoin script” not being Turing complete unlike Ethereum’s virtual machine and less prone to software bugs.

People, especially newbies trust it much more than other blockchains. That’s why everybody buys Bitcoin, currently.

I believe Bitcoin’s going to take on an important role in a value storage once it’s market value stabilizes. Essentially, it will become digital Gold. As the gold price didn’t “crash” to zero when it lost its utility as a currency, I believe we will never see a complete crash of the Bitcoin value. It will serve a niche application and, hence, keep having value. But it’s continued growth of its value will flatten over time in the future, I am sure. So I wouldn’t worry too much about its energy usage.

[zucker42]

So it seems like to me you are saying that PoW has energy issues but that's not a problem because of PoS, but at the same time PoW (BTC) will continue to exist and consume at least the same amount of energy as it currently does.

It's concerning to me that there's not even a "light at the end of the tunnel" as far as BTC's energy usage goes.

[G3rn0ti]

> but at the same time PoW (BTC) will continue to exist and consume at least the same amount of energy as it currently

No, I said that BTC is _currently_ more popular for the reasons I describe and _predicted_ it to become a niche crypto asset in the future. I might be proven wrong but this scenario I described should you make you sleep well at night, again. ;-)

[jjnoakes]

> People, especially newbies trust it much more than other blockchains. That’s why everybody buys Bitcoin, currently

How do you know this is the reason? Couldn't another reason (like bitcoin getting the most press/hype) be true instead?

(I do not know the real reason, I'm just wondering why you think the one you stated is the real reason - care to elaborate?)

[ceilingcorner]

Probably a lot of that is simply branding and first mover advantage. Everyone knows what bitcoin is and the name is nice and simple. The second largest coin, to my understanding, is ethereum, which has to be the worst name I’ve ever heard.

[mindcandy]

Proof of Stake requires that what you are staking has value. The future I'm looking forward to is POS taking over by leveraging the existing Proof of Work already invested in Bitcoin and Ethereum. So, Bitcoin will slowly go away by being burned to transmute it into the foundational value of new POS coins. During that process, the total supply of unburned coins will decrease. Eventually the market cap will decrease. Less POW mining will be necessary. And, eventually it will drop off to effectively zero.

[Geee]

Proof-of-work is still the most secure way, and also the most fair way to distribute new currency, because it's just energy converted into currency.

If proof-of-stake or something else actually works, then bitcoin's algorithm can be changed to that.

[blacksmith_tb]

I don't see anything above like a statement that Bitcoin will "destroy the planet". But the claim that its comparatively large energy footprint contributes to that destruction seems perfectly reasonable - the common comparison is that Bitcoin currently "uses more electricity than Argentina"[1]. Not surprisingly lots of mining is colocated with hydropower or geothermal power generation, but mainly because that's cheaper - I could imagine the power demands for mining reaching a level where they'd underwrite solar or wind farms (apparently we aren't there yet...), or just become economically unfeasible altogether.

1: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56012952

[G3rn0ti]

> Not surprisingly lots of mining is colocated with hydropower

And, hence, miners’ energy use does not correlate to their carbon footprint directly. That’s often overlooked.

Furthermore, there is a strong economic incentive for Bitcoin miners to save energy to stay more competitive. Bitcoin mining is done on specialized hardware (ASICs), nowadays, and these devices will get more efficient since the market is still in its infancy.

BTW: What do you think is the carbon footprint of Netflix, YouTube or Pornhub? And what’s their economic utility? If we start critizing IT projects for their energy usage, I don’t think Bitcoin & Co are the biggest culprits.

[berenza]

bitcoin mining does not need grid power, just internet connection. you can set up a mine in the middle of the desert, or in antarctica, and it works just fine. if grid energy gets expensive enough, a lot of things will become unfeasible but bitcoin won't be one of them.

[jki275]

You still have to have a ton of power. You won't generate all that outside of a power grid unless you own your own hydro dams or something.

[akudha]

More than energy issues, what is sad is that Bitcoin is kinda becoming what it was started against - huge amounts of bitcoin is in the hands of whales. Most ordinary people have zero interest in practical usage of btc, their only interest is greed ("when moon?"). Companies are pouring hundreds of millions of dollars into BTC, hoping to make huge profits. Just like an ordinary person can't afford to buy shares/houses, he can't afford to buy BTC either.

In other words, concentration of wealth in the hands of a tiny group of people.

Crypto is here to stay, it will take a few years, but they will be useful in some form or another. Hopefully it is useful for everyone, not just the 1%

[gruez]

>More than energy issues, what is sad is that Bitcoin is kinda becoming what it was started against - huge amounts of bitcoin is in the hands of whales. Most

Was there ever an expectation that cryptocurrencies were going to solve the concentration of wealth and/or inequality? Bitcoin's whitepaper only talked about being able to transact without a trusted third party (banks) and the famous genesis block message of "Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks" seems to be more against government interventionism (ie. "too big to fail") than inequality.

[G3rn0ti]

> In other words, concentration of wealth in the hands of a tiny group of people.

Well, Bitcoin and Defi already serve the poor in countries where they are being denied access to financial services.

You also need to distinguish between the concentration of wealth and income. The reason for why the wealthy seemingly getting wealthier and the poor getting poorer is in fact the low interest rates payed to savings account holders. Rich people invest in equity or housing. Poor people have no safe means left in Europe and the US to save money and grow their wealth. Apart from the inflation tax the reason for this situation are indeed economic policies of our central banks that have lowered interest rates to almost zero for decades.

Using DeFi services like “Compound.finance” today you can earn significant interest on your Dollars (yes, Dollars not Bitcoin) and that’s exactly because these services are detached from the financial System governed by the Federal reserve or European Central Bank.

I would go so far and argue DeFi and Bitcoin are liberating the poor from economic suppression even in the wealthiest of nations.