[daave]

It's not pointless, but I do think it's reasonable to question whether this is the best thing one can do to have an impact.

Could the time spent taking the neighbors trash away be spent doing something even more impactful?

Is the interaction with these neighbors caring and educative, or antagonistic? In the latter case they're unlikely to emulate it or pass on the idea to others.

[0x003]

It's not about doing the best thing, it's about doing something. You don't have to perfectly efficient, just take simple actions that reflect the change you want to see. We all have limited time and energy, if you see something positive you can do you shouldn't dismiss the idea of doing it just because you could sell all your belongings and become an eco-warrior and be maximally efficient in pursuing a positive development. Don't do nothing because you could be doing more. Just do what you can.

Do something good and do it consistently.

[solipsism]

Why though, if you're not going to make a difference? Why bother?

The reality is that the reason we do these things is to make ourselves feel better. Ah, yes, my daily shot of endorphins from recycling. Ah yes, my bumper sticker makes sure everyone knows I'm one of the good ones -- my social standing is safe.

This philosophy is why middle class first world kids pay thousands of dollars to go on missionary trips to build a single well in a far away village. Yes, you got dirty with the natives and did something.

I think it's all hollow. If you aren't making a real impact -- actually moving the needle -- you are doing nothing. It's just a vanity.

I believe in donating money to causes that have high impact. Given my skillset, I'm confident that's by far the best thing I can do. And aside from that, I don't sweat the small stuff. I have a keurig. Yep you heard right. Also donated enough to save a few lives from malaria. Exactly one of those facts about myself made any difference at all to the world.

[0x003]

> The reality is that the reason we do these things is to make ourselves feel better. Ah, yes, my daily shot of endorphins from recycling. Ah yes, my bumper sticker makes sure everyone knows I'm one of the good ones -- my social standing is safe

Speak for yourself my friend. The idea that people only make changes, even little ones entirely out of self service is extraordinarily cynical and a very negative and sad view of the world.

Sometimes people just do good things, because they want to improve some minor aspect of our world, or make someone elses (or somethings) day a little bit nicer. Sometimes people do this entirely without the desire to praise themselves or be praised by someone else.

It still exists, but by it's nature you don't often see it. And if you don't believe it exists, even when you do catch a glimpse of it you wouldn't notice or care.

> I think it's all hollow. If you aren't making a real impact -- actually moving the needle -- you are doing nothing. It's just a vanity.

Say on my walk to and from work every day I pick up one single piece of litter and quietly put it in the bin. I do this every day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year. That's 500 pieces of litter. Every day those little actions aren't moving the needle at all, but at the end of the year I've actually managed to make a tiny little nudge to my environment around me. Say I tell my friend and they decide to do the same thing, now it's 1000 pieces of litter. They tell 2 of their friends, now it's 2000 pieces of litter. Then I decide to make it 2 pieces of litter, and I tell my friend and they pass it on. Now it's 4000 pieces. They start telling their friends. And so on and so on. The individual action barely nudges any needle, but just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't moving some needle even slightly. You just don't have strong enough vision.

> I believe in donating money to causes that have high impact. Given my skillset, I'm confident that's by far the best thing I can do. And aside from that, I don't sweat the small stuff. I have a keurig. Yep you heard right. Also donated enough to save a few lives from malaria. Exactly one of those facts about myself made any difference at all to the world.

You don't exist in a vacuum, and my whole point of all my comments is that individual action drives collective change. One person making minor adjustments on it's own is nothing, but if many of those singular people decide to make changes it can lead to amazing things. You can choose to make whatever change you please, I'm glad you believe in some action. But let me ask you, what change do you think you're making by stomping on the idea that multiple little changes can lead to positive effects? Why expend the energy if it's pointless anyway?

Things can be better, and people should try and make as many little positive changes as they can to the world. No person is smart enough, or has enough foresight or knowledge to be able to predict what that may lead to in the future, and personally I choose to be optimistic because why waste my life believing that anything better is a futile mission?

[solipsism]

The idea that people only make changes, even little ones entirely out of self service is extraordinarily cynical and a very negative and sad view of the world.

You keep saying that. It's subjective, and it's not an argument. George Bernard Shaw said, The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.

Say I tell my friend and they decide to do the same thing, now it's 1000 pieces of litter. They tell 2 of their friends, now it's 2000 pieces of litter. Then I decide to make it 2 pieces of litter, and I tell my friend and they pass it on. Now it's 4000 pieces. They start telling their friend

Well that's imaginative but it seems highly unlikely. After all, if everyone is so highly primed to change in this way, and all it takes is one person to spark the fire... chances are enormously likely it would have happened already, and it would have happened without you needing to spark it.

This idea that you're at the center of a movement to change the world is just more subconscious ego feeding. If you want to be at the center of a movement that changes the world... it's going to take a lot of hard work.

what change do you think you're making by stomping on the idea that multiple little changes can lead to positive effects

Humans enjoy conversation, and some of them enjoy trying to figure out truth from fiction. No more, no less.

personally I choose to be optimistic because why waste my life

Whatever floats your boat. We "cynics" are enjoying the ride as much as anyone. We just think we're doing it in a clear-eyed way.

[0x003]

> George Bernard Shaw said, The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.

I think you should double check to make sure your "accurate observation" and "clear eyed" thinking is not tainted by your own biases. It's very easy to consider ones own view the accurate one without ironing out the biases learnt or inherent to you.

> Well that's imaginative but it seems highly unlikely. After all, if everyone is so highly primed to change in this way, and all it takes is one person to spark the fire... chances are enormously likely it would have happened already, and it would have happened without you needing to spark it.

They have. Millions of times in fact! Human history is always changing and growing from little things and big things too. The world of today looks drastically different to that of 30 years ago, or 90 years ago or 500 years ago!

> This idea that you're at the center of a movement to change the world is just more subconscious ego feeding. If you want to be at the center of a movement that changes the world... it's going to take a lot of hard work.

It's not about being the center of a movement to change the world, and the fact you keep jumping back to that shows that you don't understand what I'm saying. You look at it in that lens because you want to, but it's just about doing minor good things for it's own purpose. A simple autotelic action. It's honestly that simple, but the end result of a lot of people making that simple choice is a changed world. It's not about feeding ego at all. It's also not about building a movement, at least not directly. It's about convincing those around you of the value of doing something small that improves things even insignificantly because combined they have massive impact.

Enjoy your "clear-eyed view" of the world, I know you've convinced yourself you're 100% correct.