[arrosenberg]

How it is challenging economic thinking? There is a near-zero chance cryptocurrencies replace an actual currency as the global reserve, so it's going to continue to be a novelty until people move on to something shinier.

> Not everyone gets paid in a stable currency or has easy access to it.

Bitcoin doesn't appear to solve this issue at all. How is private manipulation of Bitcoin any different than an authoritarian manipulating the local currency? If I was in a country with unstable currency, I'd want Euro or US Dollars, not bitcoin.

[ballofrubber]

I think that the chairmen of the fed and ecb arguing about bitcoin is a strong signal of a challenge.

As I and the video mentioned Euro and USD is not easily accessible in those countries, Bitcoin doesn't need permission though.

What you refer to as private manipulation is called supply and demand, maybe try reading Econo101 :)

[arrosenberg]

> What you refer to as private manipulation is called supply and demand, maybe try reading Econo101 :)

Does Econ 101 cover asset bubbles or financial manipulation? It's been so long, that I can't remember, but I promise you that prices can reflect things other than supply and demand once you manage to get past that first class.

> Bitcoin doesn't need permission though

No authoritarian would EVER cut off or filter the internet in their country. Nope, has never happened, will never happen.

[ballofrubber]

> No authoritarian would EVER cut off or filter the internet in their country. Nope, has never happened, will never happen.

You're right, Myanmar just did that! Scary to think of it. Fortunately Bitcoin works over more communication protocols, but no internet is certainly not in any way easily defendable today. But i still think that physical and banked usd, euros and gold are more easily seizable by a government. A no internet scenario is probably economic suicide by any government.

I really don't get what you mean by financial manipulation in regards to bitcoin.

[jcranmer]

Cutting off internet is virtually the first thing an authoritarian government does at the sign of unrest. I want to say there's been something like a dozen in the last decade. If you include incomplete internet shutdowns, that list would probably grow well over 100. Hell, it's not just limited to authoritarian governments: the UK requires ISPs to filter certain sites.

I would not bet that the government is incapable of cutting off access to bitcoin.

[arrosenberg]

> I really don't get what you mean by financial manipulation in regards to bitcoin.

Bitcoin entered a speculative bubble in the middle of 2017.

[ballofrubber]

And that is financial manipulation how?

The supply got less, while the demand didn't decrease. The intrinsic value increased because of the network and lindy effect, which is why institutional investors jumped in. Bitcoin entered a speculative bubble the moment the first block was created.

I would say we just don't know the price of bitcoin yet, hence the heavy volatility.

What would you price it at? Are you shorting it?

[arrosenberg]

I wouldn't price it at all, because I don't see it as valuable, and I don't gamble, so I'm not going to short it. The supply got less because people bought bitcoin based on media hype. That's pretty classic manipulation.