[sgtnoodle]

It seems like there's plenty of "willful misunderstanding" from folk on both sides of the political spectrum. It seems like two sides of the same coin to me, and it doesn't really matter too much because ultimately the carnival game is rigged to eat the coin regardless. Whether you're a neo-nazi or a marxist-commie, we're all slightly awkward but reasonable nerds here right? I think most sane people can agree that data breaches are bad, and that black hat hackers are bad guys and white hat hackers are good guys?

Speaking of finding common ground, I thought the recent GME schenanigans were notable in that folk on both extremes of the political spectrum seemed to agree that it was fun "sticking it to the man". Was anyone here not cheering the "irrational" retail traders on?

[pii]

Genuinely, I want to find common ground with people who don't say anyone who isn't a neo-nazi is ALL THE WAY LEFT AND A DANGEROUS PERSON

[Auracle]

Maybe you could start by realizing the vast majority of people on the right aren’t neo-nazis.

[pii]

"I won't acknowledge that neo-nazis are a problem"

Sorry, did I misunderstand you?

[vecter]

Not all people on the far right are Neo-Nazis, but all Neo-Nazis are on the far right.

[sgtnoodle]

You aren't coming across as genuine, though. Textual communication loses a lot of subtlety, but you figuratively started screaming mid-sentence. Is it fair to assume that people in the past have treated you like a dangerous person? Were you screaming at them? Were you trying to shame them into condemning something, thus forcing them to either submit themselves to you, or seemingly be implicated as the terrible thing you're calling them to condemn?

If you really intended to be genuine in your desire to find common ground with folk of differing political views from your own, I once again invite you to share your personal beliefs on the topic of societal damage caused by data breaches, or your thoughts on the recent GME stock market manipulation.

[pii]

Hey, I'm willing to have that discussion, sure. I am accepting the challenge to accept the rules of engagement you dictated.

Are you willing to accept the challenge of accepting the rules of engagement I put forth - Acknowledge that neo-nazis are a problem, briefly state why?

---

I think the GME stuff is a bit nuts, personally. I found the whole thing entertaining, but I find it hard to believe that most participants won't be hurt in some way in the long run. I'm not sure how much small time investors understand that. Optimistically, maybe this is a collective learning experience that does minimal harm to a large number of people, and we all come away from the experience with a better idea of how the stock market works. Maybe then we can make better informed electoral decisions? Feels a bit too optimistic, but hey.

Better than meme stocks vs hedge funds, imo, would be to have a working system for accountability and enforcement at the SEC- been lacking for decades, from what I understand.

-------

Societal damage caused by data breaches. Idk, it's a bit large as a topic. Do I like that a bunch of personal data just got dumped? Not the biggest fan, no. I wouldn't want it to happen to me, certainly.

I do think it's useful to have the data there to show how much the platform is for hate and organizing around hate. It seems like there should be a better way to expose this kind of thing.

----

I'd be surprised if you also engage in a genuine discussion on your own terms.

I love surprises, but I've been on the internet long enough not to expect them.

[Krisando]

> I do think it's useful to have the data there to show how much the platform is for hate and organizing around hate.

I think for a proper useful evaluation, we equally need to see a similar full dump from other platforms like Facebook, Twitter etc. who are the standard when it comes to social media.

I am personally not too convinced the content is that different, but rather some platforms just have more diverse political allegiances.

[pii]

Well no not at the outset, but we know fb, to follow this example, pays a small army of moderators. I suspect that has some kind of measurable effect.

[Krisando]

I honestly think we do at the outset and especially before we evaluate.

The full history would also tell us if these ideas were more common when they're smaller network but when they grow they aren't etc.

The other thing we need to evaluate is if these platforms are just made of people banned from primary platforms and if that's the case, are these platforms really responsible for the surge of these types of people and perhaps what is a way to fix these societal issues as they continue to exist rather than disappear?

Gab and Parler have moderators too too, but the content they moderate is a lot more refined. I suspect proportionally, they're actually more to a per user ratio than FB or Twitter.

[sgtnoodle]

I invited you to share your opinions one way or another on two topics that I believe largely have common ground, and I appreciate your responses on both topics. I don't think it's comparable for you to challenge me with a "loaded question" that inherently puts me on the defensive, based on assumptions and false premises that I can't challenge without escalating the conversation into an argument. Do you see the difference there?

An equivalent prompt for discussion on the topic of neo-naziism would perhaps be, "I believe that neo-naziism is a problem. Do you agree with me? Why or why not?" I'll happily respond to that.

I think neo-naziism is one of the many appalling and terrible extremist ideologies that exist in the world, and people that willingly engage in it are bad people. In the general sense, it's certainly a problem; the world would be a better place if neo-nazis didn't exist. Within the context of politics in the United States, it's hard to say that it's a genuine problem. I'm an American, and I don't know of anyone within any degree of separation that would be fairly considered a neo-nazi, or is afflicted by neo-naziism. I live on the coast, though, and so may be in a bubble that's out of touch with other parts of the country. From my point of view, I think the problem is more that neo-naziism is a label that has been weaponized by the political left to rally their base against the political right. It seems comparable to the political right labeling their opponents as similarly nasty things to rally their base against the political left. I think it's about as likely that neo-naziism is a widespread concern within the political right as much as it is likely that the political left has a problem with child eating demon worshippers. It all seems like nonsense that doesn't match reality.

I agree with you on GME that it's unfortunate if anyone created a financial hardship for themselves by investing when they didn't understand the situation. I also agree that government oversight that actually functions effectively within its purpose would be way better than what we have now. I'm curious what your thoughts are on cryptocurrencies like bitcoin? I personally hate them, mainly for the environmental waste that proof-of-work algorithms create, but also for the blatant disregard for the majority of the world population's traditionally accumulated wealth.

[pii]

I am thankful that you took the time to enumerate that you don't share neo-nazi ideology. I think that right now, it makes a bigger difference than it has in the past to state it out loud.

For reference: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic...

The FBI disagrees with you quite a bit on whether neo-nazis & co are a problem.

This is why I insist so much. This is why so many on the left insist so much on this particular test. Pretending the problem isn't a problem is a thing that is actively causing harm to the country.