[shazmosushi]

Second stage reusability on the Rocket Lab Neutron will be much easier than the Falcon 9 because the carbon fiber frame doesn't need a heatshield. I may be wrong on this, but I believe they can just slam the second stage into the atmosphere and bring it back without even a re-entry burn, like they already do with their first stage.

If Rocket Lab achieve second stage reusability while delivering a lot of payload to orbit it would be revolutionary. Like it will take hundreds of flights for a Starship to become as cost competitive to just a few flights of the Neutron rocket.

If I was SpaceX, I would be worried. Rocket Lab is SpaceX's most fearsome competitor.

[nickik]

> Second stage reusability on the Rocket Lab Neutron will be much easier than the Falcon 9 because the carbon fiber frame doesn't need a heatshield. I may be wrong on this, but I believe they can just slam the second stage into the atmosphere and bring it back without even a re-entry burn, like they already do with their first stage.

That is very much wrong. A second stage always needs a heat shield, and a lot of it too. In fact, Starship moved away from carbon fiber partly BECAUSE it performance in heat.

And we don't know if Neutron is carbon fiber, doesn't look like it from the picture.

> If Rocket Lab achieve second stage reusability while delivering a lot of payload to orbit it would be revolutionary.

They have not even announced that they are working on that. They are planning for first stage re-usability in 2024.

Lets not jump to wild conclusions.

If anybody is gone achieve second stage re-usability anytime soon its SpaceX Starship.

> If I was SpaceX, I would be worried. Rocket Lab is SpaceX's most fearsome competitor.

Actually no. RocketLab is not a competitor in any meaningful way. The whole history of launches on RocketLab rockets could fit easily without in a single Falcon 9 rocket.

The have now announced that they might have something in 2024 that might compete with the price of Falcon 9 for some applications. And that is likely gone slip like most rockets do.

And if you make the argument that RocketLab is the best competitor of SpaceX that just shows how absurdly far away removed from everybody else SpaceX is.

[shazmosushi]

Good point on the carbon fiber thing. I forgot it's max operating temperature is 150 degrees Celsius (bursting to 180 degrees), while stainless steel can go to 820-870 degrees Celsius.

Rocket Lab never wanted to do first stage recover on the Electron, but they later chose to and have succeeded in soft ocean landings under parachutes and will soon try and catch the parachutes with helicopters.

I fully expect they're are running the numbers on second stage reusability but unlike SpaceX [1] they don't tend to announce things until they are sure that's what they will pursue.

Rocket Lab only promised the Neutron will do 8,000kg to low-Earth orbit, and people are suggesting the rocket tanks can be stretched for added performance.

If SpaceX wasn't pursuing Starship they would continue to spend resources on second stage reusability for the Falcon 9. Even less than 2 years ago Elon Musk was still talking about using a ballute to recover the Falcon 9 second stage [1], but they later decided to put all their resources into the Starship.

But yeah 2024 far enough away that Starship (and New Glenn) should be operational by then, so the competitive landscape may be different. But that's all the more reason for Rocket Lab to pursue second stage reusability.

[1] https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/985655249745592320

[nickik]

The good thing about the first stage is that you can go 'ass' first and fly the rocket threw a corridor of relativity ok environment.

The problem with second stage re-usability is that it is like 25x harder then first stage.

> Rocket Lab only promised the Neutron will do 8,000kg to low-Earth orbit, and people are suggesting the rocket tanks can be stretched for added performance.

Like the Falcon did too.

> If SpaceX wasn't pursuing Starship they would continue to spend resources on second stage reusability for the Falcon 9. Even less than 2 years ago Elon Musk was still talking about using a ballute to recover the Falcon 9 second stage [1], but they later decided to put all their resources into the Starship.

Yeah but a big part of that choice was that they realized they would reduce their payload so much it not really worth it in the majority of cases.

> But that's all the more reason for Rocket Lab to pursue second stage reusability.

Agree overall. Personally I am kind of a fan of the idea to try to reuse them in Orbit. I think there are a couple interesting things that could potentially be done.