[pgm8705]

I'm guessing (and hoping) this is a bug and not intentional, but this is pretty scary. My digital personal life is almost all within Apple's ecosystem, including most of the smart devices in my house. Getting locked out for any amount of time would be super frustrating.

[justaguy88]

It sounds like you're "over-exposed" to Apple in this risk category

[fortran77]

What makes you believe this is not intentional?

[ktta]

Maybe because it's been quite a while since Apple Card was released and this is the first time we're hearing about it?

[FireBeyond]

So they haven't refined their processes since Launch Day?

[Bud]

I've had Apple Card since day one. I'll tell you what makes me certain that this is not intentional and is in fact not even happening as the user is implying:

-Apple and Goldman Sachs' service with Apple Card has been exemplary in every detail

-Apple went out of its way throughout the early months of covid to let users skip payments for any reason. No extra interest charges

-Apple Card doesn't even have any late fees, or annual fees, or fees of any kind. And the app for the card goes out of its way to keep you from paying any unnecessary interest charges

-This sort of punitive action just does not jibe with the entire nature of the product or Apple's service in general

[FireBeyond]

Your emphasis is wrong. This is more accurate:

> I'll tell you what makes _me_ certain

And you're now accusing someone of being dishonest due to lack of evidence based on your anecdotal experience, also absent evidence.

> Apple and Goldman Sachs' service with Apple Card has been exemplary in every detail

So that makes it "certainly" not possible that someone can have a sub-par customer sevice interaction?

> Apple Card doesn't even have any late fees

You're right. Good for them. They absolutely will charge you "additional interest" on top of your current APR for any late fees, however. That gets the same net effect, while providing a nice little soundbite.

[Bud]

I didn't accuse anyone of being dishonest; you should probably retract that.

Also, since you seem so very certain about this, I offered 10-1 odds on $100 elsewhere in the thread if it's proven Apple is doing this intentionally as a policy. Nobody took me up on it. Would you like to? Easy money, if you're right.

[davismwfl]

This is not a bug, this is by design. There is no possible way this wasn't spec'd as a test scenario to force payment compliance. They know they have leverage that a bank wouldn't have so they are using it.

[_jal]

And you know this.. how?

Or are you simply following a chain of assumptions to a place that meets your opinion of Apple?

[davismwfl]

I added some clarification in another reply.

To your point, I don't know for fact just as you don't know for fact I'm wrong. And this could even be a false claim without having some sort of proof. Maybe my wording was to deterministic and should've been worded as more a "possibility", but a complex system like this takes a ton of requirements and testing and it is super hard to see Apple not paying attention to this specific issue.

You don't know my opinion of Apple. I generally like Apple and use them for quite a lot of things. Sure, maybe they are priced too high on some hardware (IMO) and some app store policies I dislike but overall I don't view them as evil and I build things for their platform because it is worth it. Apple simply takes advantage of their platform and why wouldn't they?

My one complaint with Apple is just wanting to know all the rules ahead of time so we can play by the rules, and sometimes it does feel like we find many of the rules out through this type of scenario versus Apple being 100% transparent up front.

[temp667]

"This is not a bug, this is by design."

Please provide some clearer support for this statement of supposed fact.

We've got so many MUCH MORE likely scenarios.

These are the common ones that disable or lock account:

* Repeatedly entering an incorrect Apple ID and password. * Not using your Apple account for an extended amount of time * Billing issues such as unpaid iTunes or App Store orders * Security reasons * Charge disputes on your credit card

I've yet to hear of a missed payment on an apple card resulting in this (and I have an apple card and have missed payments).

[0x0]

Are you saying anyone can disable anyone else's appleid by just hammering https://appleid.apple.com with their email address and bogus password?

[temp667]

Exactly correct.

"If you or someone else enters your password, security questions, or other account information incorrectly too many times, your Apple ID automatically locks to protect your security and you can't sign in to any Apple services."

There is then an immediate unlock option with a trusted device or recovery key etc. There are other recovery methods if you don't have 2FA. If you don't have 2FA you are in security question land, which is more heavily rate limited even beyond this for recovery.

[toomuchtodo]

And most unfortunately, there is no regulation yet that would allow you to file a complaint with the CFPB or other regulatory body (maybe in California, with regards to access to your personal data under CCPA?) over Apple's overreach as a credit facilitator (as Goldman is the issuer for the card) if this is verified as expected behavior.

[breatheoften]

Wow if this actually is expected behavior then the backlash the first time this hits someone prominent in political space is definitely going to produce the regulations that you point to as currently non-existent ...

[Bud]

Please don't spread unsupported rumors like this unless you are willing to back them up with evidence.

[davismwfl]

First, of course I could be wrong on this (or it could be a false claim as some have suggested), but a few reasons I said this is intentional and not a defect of code.

1. The OP in a response tweet said it took ~15 days before his accounts were disabled and a few more before he linked to two things together. Meaning likely there is a process that the bank handling the actual card sends details to Apple on some interval which says who is late etc, and when Apple got it they then process the disabling of accounts.

2. If it was unintentional I'd expect Apple to have an easy and quick resolution to fixing it, and I'd also think if Apple's systems were that linked it would have happened more immediate not taken ~15 days.

3. The reason it would take 3-5 days to re-enable the Apple ID's and associated services would be because the bank has to update their records for payment and then send notice to Apple that the user is current, hence it isn't an immediate task and takes a small process with associated delays. This fits the description of what the user stated.

Lastly, personally, Apple has been helpful to me in the past when a company I was working with had an issue with our corporate Apple ID & services. Apple support were able to unlock the account (and associated services) after just a couple of hours of back and forth and they were clear their managers had clear ability to enable/disable Apple ID's. I am sure they have some decision tree they use but it was immediate once the support woman told me it was reactivated I could immediately log in, no delay.