[satokema_work]

At some point, you are going to have to use some sort of force to confine or constrain to prevent the child from engaging in unwanted behavior.

No matter what flowery language or loopy logic you use to avoid the subject, you are applying force.

Is it better to have well-thought out uses of force instead of just hitting the kid when they make you angry? Of course. But don't pretend that living in the world requires no discipline at all.

[dragonwriter]

> At some point, you are going to have to use some sort of force to confine or constrain to prevent the child from engaging in unwanted behavior.

Physically confining or constraining is not the same thing as using deliberate infliction of pain as a punishment.

> No matter what flowery language or loopy logic you use to avoid the subject, you are applying force.

Force is not the issue.

> But don't pretend that living in the world requires no discipline at all.

Discipline is a third distinct (but overlapping) category from physical constraint and pain-as-punishment.

Confusing the three different issues is not helpful.

[TomK32]

"well-thought out uses of force" was certainly a part of school life in the post-war years, yet it couldn't stop teenagers, rock'n'roll, mini-skirts and hippies.

We are not talking about "no discipline at all", we are talking about violence against your children. Humans you brought into the world and you shouldn't have done that if you hit them.