[exacube]

Well, here goes another thread about free speech vs. ethical discourse, where atleast one side uncompromisingly refuses to put themselves in the shoes of the other.

Just to fast-forward this thread a bit for everyone:

- Free speech doesn't exist on some for-profit company's platform. Communities should be moderated on some ethical standard for the benefit of peace

- Free speech trumps ethics and peace -- without free speech, we have neither

[Barrin92]

>Free speech trumps ethics and peace -- without free speech, we have neither

I really don't understand the purpose of these fortune cookie slogans. First off, how does 'ethics' vanish if we curb free speech? Like is there a date where we solved ethics and now every moral framework that does not value freedom of speech highly is just invalid, like some sort of math problem?

Regarding peace it's just flat out wrong. Of course you can have peace without free speech, probably much more of it. Of course it's worthy asking if sacrificing speech for more peace is justified or not.

But in all seriousness can we stop being dogmatic and unthinking about free-speech, which is in itself kind of ironic? You can debate everything, just not whether free speech is debatable apparently.

[ekianjo]

You can make the claim that ethics are a way people agree on what is acceptable or not and for this agreement to happen you need to have freedom of expression in the first place. Otherwise its just the whims of the ruler instead of a system of values.

[slibhb]

> I really don't understand the purpose of these fortune cookie slogans. First off, how does 'ethics' vanish if we curb free speech?

Ethics are normative. They shift over time and everyone contributes, partly through speech. Restricting speech cripples this long-running, civilization ethical discussion.

You are engaged in sawing off the branch we're all standing on.

[ben_w]

I have an also-unpopular third option:

The graph of freedom of speech versus personal liberty looks like the Laffer curve for government income vs tax rate.

One end is zero for obvious reasons; the other end is also zero because it is a power vacuum, one which e.g. charismatic narcissistic Machiavellian sociopaths exploit it to rise to power and they kick away the free speech ladder after they get it.

[fallingknife]

So are you saying that the current people in charge are the "charismatic narcissistic Machiavellian sociopaths" who exploited the power vacuum that existed with the creation of the internet and are now kicking away the "free speech ladder?"

[ben_w]

Nope. The internet isn’t the origin of the idea of total freedom of speech without any constraints, and such personalities have been whipping nations to commit genocides since before my now-deceased parents were born.

[supergirl]

indeed. and it's pointless anyway to discuss this from an ideological perspective. FB is only looking out for their financial interests. they just make a bet with the best expected return. in this case it's pretty safe to bet on the side of the US, EU governments who oppose the coup. and they do something rather than nothing maybe to regain some favors with western countries or they feel they need to do it to claim consistency with past actions.