[bumby]

Replying to you because their post got flagged (sorry)

I didn’t downvote but felt like this was worthy of a response.

Your whole perspective is a mechanical pragmatic one but the goal of a space program goes beyond that. It’s intended to be aspirational because we are species that wants to be inspired. It’s why NASA dedicates part of its mission to outreach. It’s also why a lot of countries have a space program when they have even larger problems to solve; it’s serves as both inspiration and national pride. If we only care about pragmatism, we might as well get rid of literature, music, art... you know the things that help make life worth living. Personally, I think doing hard, pioneering things to help inspire a populace is worth 0.45% of the national budget*

And from the extreme negativity in your post, a little inspiration might be of use to you, too.

* I also say this as someone who left the space industry to focus on an industry geared towards more immediate problems

[doublerabbit]

The little inspiration it brings is always overthrown by the negatives of the now outside of the whole space venture. There is no national pride to have when say one government decides to screw the country one lives causing restrictions in freedom.

Space will be a great thing, but when those in control of it, also control the damage of the current planet kind of makes moot of the whole two elements.

You could say the whole space venture is for the future, our kids, kids but how is there to be a future if we destroy the now?

I hate being stuck in the rut I am in, 31 and highly cynical. But from what I've experienced and seeing the decaying future gives less hope every day. I try hard to keep an optimistic type of view but it's bare threaded. Knowing that I've picked up four bin-bags daily of trash gives me hope that someday we can all be doing the same and that I've saved the planet a tiny bit.

I too also hope I can create awareness that turn a few heads with a few ideas but then with that you still run the extreme risk of being taken down for trying to promote a good deed.

[avmich]

Don't be cynical :) space exploration is a highly profitable endeavor, and manned space flight is found to have economic benefits as well.

[bumby]

Again, I’ll ask more directly: do you think 0.45% of the budget will solve those environmental problems enough to offset what is lost in aspirational benefit? I think where we disagree is that you seem to think both are mutually exclusive

[doublerabbit]

I don't think both are mutually exclusive, I see one more important then the other. You see space, and I see environment.

> I’ll ask more directly: do you think 0.45% of the budget will solve those environmental problems enough to offset what is lost in aspirational benefit?

Yes, I do. If that 0.45% pushed towards environmental which helped develop new form of technology that returns well-being to the planet, then the aspiration wouldn't of been loss. Aspiration would return and would wager higher return including hope for humanity. It works both ways.

As like the current example on the front page at the moment about plant based recycling. That's inspirational but has much thought, time and money as of going in to space been invested in to that? Where would we be if did the same.

[bumby]

I think where we diverge is that you seem to assume everyone does/should have the same aspirations as you. As another commenter alluded to, we live in a pluralistic society. That in itself is valuable enough to me to warrant that relatively negligible budget, let alone the fact that more people probably are inspired by space than by environmental science. I don’t think there’s any reason there can’t be room for both, but you seem to think there can only be a focus on one

[doublerabbit]

I'm not sure where your getting that assumption from. Like others have said thinking I want to defund all space programs. No, I am not saying that. I don't see money in such a linear view, all or nothing. There could be multiple projects on hand however as it currently stands there is only focus on one with the vision of "Get people on Mars"

I'm just weighing down to what is more important now:

A lunar gateway, a space elevator. Or trying to harness the sun, clearing plastics from within the ocean? Fixing the planet we are on now, or living in space? It does currently show that people are more inspired by space than environmental science. Anything environmental is declared boring, it is boring. It doesn't yield the same practical results. As I mean you don't see the same result in the same sense as a new rocket, footage of a new planet. But regardless or not it is, which is more important?

[bumby]

Sorry if it was a bad assumption. I just can’t square the two points you’re making. You say we can still have a space program but funding should be less? As in less than one half of one percent is too much? You may not realize it but the there are multiple directorates within NASA and only one is primarily focused on gateway (the human exploration directorate). So it’s a fraction of a fraction of a percent that goes to that. The rest of the money goes to other directorates that have priorities that may align more with your priorities. For example, the aeronautics research directorate performs fundamental research in areas that can decrease greenhouse gas emissions from air travel. The Earth science directorate is heavily focused on climate change. If you look at what is actually left over for exploration, to an extent it’s in agreement with your stance that it’s not really a priority compared with the percentage of GDP spent during the space race when it was a national priority. By only giving a pittance of GDP to exploration when it used to be orders of magnitude higher, we’re saying exploration is no longer a priority.

I think the people who claim otherwise might benefit from looking at the actual relative funding.