[zwkrt]

There’s a second Christian-esque type of self help which states, “you are a broken and pitiful person, your fundamental nature is flawed. Take these steps to salvation.” Jordan Peterson is like this with all his requests to empathize with gulag prison guards and the like.

I think people don’t just like hearing what is good or easy. Sometimes we want to have an incredible cross to bear. It’s the mentality that causes people to commit to overbearing self-regulation, like using pomodoro for the entire day or going on an impossible diet. Self-transformation sells just as much from the mouth of the stern father as it does from the caring mother.

[mckirk]

Hmm, I don't quite agree with that characterization of Jordan Peterson. I believe his main point when talking of these prison-guard horror stories is to "embrace your shadow", as in: Realize that you might not be as far away from being dangerous as you would think, if you just thought of yourself as a good person. Considering the numerous crimes against humanity that have been carried out by people as soon as the "veil of civilization" showed a few cracks in the past, I don't think it's an unreasonable aspect of human nature to remind people of.

I believe the concept of the shadow stems from Jung's work, and I admittedly don't know precisely in which context Jung applied it. But ostensibly, being mindful of the dangerous paths one can be lead down if you don't take care to stay in balance seems like a reasonable thing to teach people, without it instantly degenerating into a "you are a sinner and need to atone"-routine (as you seem to see it).

[billti]

Totally agree. I thought this closing statement on this recent BBC article [1] hit the point home:

  "Sometimes the women are portrayed as exploited victims. At other times as sadistic monsters.

   The truth is more horrifying. They were not extraordinary monsters, but rather ordinary women, who ended up doing monstrous things."

I think we have enough data-points by now to know that any large group, regardless of race, gender, country, sexuality, etc., has a much larger percentage of people capable of doing horrific things that we would like to believe.

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55661782

[mrfredward]

>your fundamental nature is flawed. Take these steps to salvation.

When a cheap sales pitch uses the "you're flawed" format, it's usually telling people "we are all flawed, but here's how you can be morally superior to your peers" or "do this thing and you'll receive a divine reward/achieve enlightenment." The promised reward or feeling of superiority is what makes people want to hear the message.

It's cheap to tell an aging church congregation about the dangers of video games and internet pornography, because it let's people pat themselves on the back without making a sacrifice. It's a little harder to tell an audience of young professionals that they need to limit high dopamine activities to find low dopamine activities appealing, and given that it's a real call to action based on a reasonable, falsifiable claim, I don't think it's cheap advice.