[schwartzworld]

What a weird comment. You think people with families don't miss their social lives? You think it has been easy? People aren't meant to spend so much time together. Not to mention work and full-time child care don't really go together.

I'd say if anything, I considered maintaining a social life to be a form of self-care, one I was already struggling to get enough of.

> A month or two more and I'm going to be in the 'pitchforks and torches' group

Why wait a month or two? I'm not saying I agree with you, but nothing's going to change in 2 months. I'm pretty sure nothing's going to change in the next 5 years.

[jm__87]

I think it may be tough to imagine what being alone and isolated for a year does to a person if you are someone who is stuck inside with the same people all day. I would imagine the situation for those with family is very difficult and exhausting... but not suicidal ideation level of difficult, which has been my experience with this extreme social isolation. This is in spite of devoting a lot of time and energy to self care: exercising daily, eating healthy, not drinking alcohol, and many other things. Maybe my assumption here is wrong and there are plenty of people out there living with their families who are in as precarious a situation as I currently find myself. Either way, everyone is suffering right now, but my experience has been that long term social isolation is a unique form of torture that can really push a person to the edge.

[schwartzworld]

> Maybe my assumption here is wrong and there are plenty of people out there living with their families who are in as precarious a situation as I currently find myself.

Yes, you are wrong. Everybody I know with little kids is suffering the same social isolation as you. 4 year olds do not count as socializing, especially when all of our kids are also feeling the negative effects of isolation as well.

Besides that, you specifically mentioned doing self-care. It's amazing you have the time and energy to do it. My day starts at 530am (if I'm lucky) and the only time I could work out is after the girls go to bed.

I could think of plenty of ways to get some form of social interaction if I wasn't so stretched. All my single coworkers are playing video games together and doing zoom hangouts. My friends do a poker night and I can't stay up late enough because I'm so worn out by the time it starts. I've barely spoken to anyone besides my wife, who is also being slowly ground into dust, unless you count my weekly one on one with my manager.

I'm not trying to one up anybody. If anything I think that most of us are going through some comparable form of mental anguish. The irony is that Covid keeps us from seeing how other people go through it too

[jm__87]

Sorry to hear all that. It wasn't my intent to imply that those with families aren't struggling - I know plenty who are.

[_uwiz]

> Why wait a month or two?

Because I have just about enough left in me, and by then, in the UK we will have vaccinated the groups which make up ~99% of preventable mortality.

At that point, the moral argument of "go outside and you're putting people at risk" completely falls apart in my view.

If there are variants which escape the vaccines, then at that point it's game over since I know I definitely won't be able to make it through another year.

[schwartzworld]

Honestly, unless we vaccinate everybody in the entire world, it seems that vaccine resistant variants are inevitable.

I don't know what the lockdowns are like in the UK. Are you guys not even allowed to go outside?

[rrrrrrrrrrrryan]

The parent comment was wrong to assume that people with families aren't also struggling due to dampened social lives - we're all struggling.

The people who are isolated by themselves are struggling much more.

In prison, the worst punishment you can receive is to be taken away from the all rapists and murderers, and put in solitary confinement. Being stuck in a prison cell with a partner and family probably sounds like a dream to the person stuck in a prison cell alone.

[watwut]

Depends on how abusive that family is. Because in reality, being alone with internet in appartment is not comparable to prison solitary lock down.

They are massively different.

[schwartzworld]

People in solitary confinement aren't allowed to go anywhere or speak to anybody. What country has restrictions that keep you from socializing online or calling people on the phone? In most places you have never not been able to interact outdoors or go food shopping.

[standardUser]

The idea that nothing will change in the next two months is absurd because things are already changing. There's already been an easing of restrictions over the last few weeks as the rate of new cases declines. And this is before the vaccine has had a chance to make much of an impact. Because of the vaccines, we have very reason to believe the rate of hospitalizations and deaths will only go down, which will inevitably lead to a further easing of restrictions.

[CaptainZapp]

> I'm pretty sure nothing's going to change in the next 5 years.

Given the speed in which effective vaccines were developed I think this is a rather bleak outlook.

Sure, a lot is still unknown with the new virus variants and as has been expected vaccination drives had their teething problems. But in a few month time (almost) everybody who wants their jabs can get it (in rich countries, that is).

I for one, see myself on a 3 week vacation in Asia later this year. Optimistic? Maybe, and certainly dependent on a number of factors beyond my control. But I think it's a much better perspective than wallowing in misery and not seeing a way out.

[Mediterraneo10]

It is worth reading what the epidemologists advising Western governments actually think. Many of them are arguing for social distancing and border closures to continue until the entire world is vaccinated, regardless of how many people are vaccinated within your own country. That is expected to take probably until 2026, so the OP's worries about five years are founded. Some outliers among those advisors are even arguing for social distancing for the rest of the 2020s, or (because they want to take the opportunity to end flu transmission as well) in perpetuity.

[spdionis]

That would be pretty dystopian.

[birktj]

Are you sure this is the case? From the Norwegian news it seems very much like the epidemiologists that are advising the government in many cases are advising lesser restrictions than what is actually implemented.

[ghaff]

There is zero chance that democracies will conform to those kind of restrictions. Once most people are vaccinated, people are going to shift back to business (mostly) as usual subject to changes like more remote work. Governments can't enforce policies if people won't follow them.

[packetlost]

Do you have a source for that?

[Mediterraneo10]

Many of these advisors are speaking directly to media. Devi Sridhar, one of the advisors to the UK government, for example, has been doing interviews recently about maintaining long-term border closures and requiring expensive hotel quarantines.

Right after I posted my comment above, at 15:12 comments regarding Canadian forecasts appeared in The Guardian's COVID live blog, in which epidemologists say that restrictions must be preserved within the country because the vaccine rollout is a global problem, not a local one.

[packetlost]

The only article that seems to be quoting Devi Sridhar is behind a paywall, but doesn't seem to be supporting your argument.

I can't find anything on The Guradian's COVID live blog talking about what you're referring to, can you provide a link?

[Mediterraneo10]

If you go to Google News, set your location to the UK, and search for "devi sridhar", you'll find abundant content that is not behind a paywall. Here is just one article[0] of many in which she advocates for an approach where borders stay closed until the whole world is vaccinated.

Apparently this[1] is the permalink for The Guardian post.

[0] https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19036150.covid-scotland-...

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/feb/19/coronavir...

[standardUser]

Thank god the epidemiologists are not the ones making policy. Most state and local governments in the US have not shown a willingness to follow such a hardline approach, and we're already seeing reopenings as numbers drop, long before the vaccine has even had a major impact.

[leesalminen]

Pretty sure one of Biden’s main talking points of his election campaign was that America would start listening to the scientists more closely.

[Notorious_BLT]

So far no meaningful action has been taken that indicates he's particularly concerned. He's focused on trying to reopen schools, last I heard.

Some people have argued that the vaccinations are evidence of his success regarding Covid-19 but I don't see any part of that that wouldn't have been proceeding with or without him. As far as I can tell, the only difference between Trump and Biden's handling of covid has been "Biden knows to keep his mouth shut about specifics and predictions, because he might be wrong" which is exactly the kind of playing-both-sides I've seen from many state and city governments for the last year (talking a lot about how we need to follow the science and keep locking down to keep the spread low, but also taking no steps to enforce the rules or financially support people/businesses.)

[ghaff]

Oh I'm sure he's concerned. But there's precious little he can do other than doing what he can to get vaccines rolled out faster and closing borders to foreigners. Most people certainly support the former and most are at worst indifferent to the latter. He can also set a "good example."

But getting into a tussle with states he thinks are opening up too much, etc. is almost certainly counterproductive at this point.

[standardUser]

Nothing Biden has said or done has implied he wants to take a hardline approach to COVID restrictions, aside from briefly floating the idea of limited domestic travel. And he made no effort to tie the massive relief package to restrictive state polices. Beyond that, he has limited authority over state and local restrictions.

[ghaff]

To say nothing of control over how people actually act.

In any case, listening to scientists means you take their input and factor that into the tradeoffs that drive policy. Which may well involve simultaneously that there is e.g. some risk associated with allowing people to travel by air while allowing them to do it anyway.

[Mediterraneo10]

One of the Biden administration's first moves was to reinstate the ban on travel to the USA from Schengen that was about to expire. And it was just announced that this ban would now be extended indefinitely. The US ban on travel does not just affect tourism, it affects family reunification as well, and I would consider that a hardline approach.