[fernandotakai]

same! i like that SQLAlchemy made me actually learn SQL.

but for like, boilerplate stuff, Django's ORM works so well. also, because it's all within the same "framework", every single library can adapt super well to it and more a shitton of dumb code from your hands.

[bitexploder]

I love reading about the thumping and bumping of modern frameworks. Meanwhile tons of great software gets written in rails and Django while startups cargo cult along. Maybe I am being curmudgeonly here, but, I think it’s true.