[grey-area]

I think the problem people have is the FOI exception. There is no good reason for this, save corruption and wasting public funds. Other agencies are subject to FOI requests and public oversight, why should this one be different?

So the objection is to that specific clause and based on very real facts about recent and ongoing corruption. Priti Patel is another example and there is a very long list if you want one of abuse of public office from the current cabinet, this is not an abstract concern or one without foundation.

Nobody on this thread has said that everything the Conservatives do is bad, just that they are proven to be corrupt and therefore a FOI exception is a bad idea in this case.

[hogFeast]

The reason why the FOI exception exists is because that is how the scheme ran in the US, and having political pressure on this program will kill it.

Also, remember that FOI isn't some magic tool for stopping corruption. Blair brought it in, and has said several times that it needs to be changed. FOI isn't public oversight.

The Conservatives are not proven to be corrupt. This self-evidently not true because no-one has proved it.

[pbhjpbhj]

The thing about democracy is you're not supposed to be able to force the public to do things they don't want.

If Tories believe an agency without oversight is in the public interest they're supposed to come to the public, get a mandate for that, win support. I strongly suspect this is vehicle for backhanders, but even if it weren't then in a democracy they're care to win approval first.

If it's worth doing, it's worth knowing the cost of. I'm happy to explore having a low-financial return science/engineering group funded by pubic money ... but only if it's completely transparent (financially and politically).

[jariel]

"There is no good reason for this, "

No, there are a ton of things the US et. al. do in secret, it's normal.

There needs to be oversight, public is better, but an independent council can work.

But yes, there's going to be a problem with graft.

[kergonath]

You can have both industrial secrets and FOI. Documents got through FOI requests are routinely redacted, and requests denied, when there is a real justification. A blanket policy is counter-productive and a strong indication that there's something very dodgy.

I mean, if you FOI the MoD, they say no, but they don't have a blank cheque to avoid any scrutiny either.

[grey-area]

We have government agencies for secret stuff - spies and the military, they already have lots of R&D funds.