[gnaritas]

The free market isn't the best solution for every problem. Imagine if firemen worked like American doctors and wouldn't deal with you unless you were properly insured, or police who only helped those who could afford it or had paid their protection dues.

Some things really do benefit the whole herd and and everyone needs to contribute whether they like it or not. I'm all for minimal government where the free market works, but it's not the right solution to every problem.

Profit can't be the only motive for doing things, some things must be done because it's simply the right thing to do and profiting off of it just wouldn't be right.

Society might not be required to feed and cloth you, but it should damn sure protect you from other members of society, and it should step in and do things to prevent the free market from damaging the one world we all have to share, like decent public transportation to reduce the need for everyone to drive and continually pollute the environment.

[Prrometheus]

I've heard those points and that rhetoric before and I am not convinced. It is insufficient to say this, but I think we are approaching this issue with substantially different experience, assumptions, and background knowledge. I don't think I am contributing much to the world by spending a lot of time on a comment in this forum, so I will unfortunately leave it at that right now. If you live in San Diego, how about coffee sometime?

[gnaritas]

If I did, I most certainly would, it's an interesting discussion, but I don't so I can't. I used to be all hardcore libertarian like that, but as I get older I lighten up and see that it's a bit too idealistic and leads to anarchy which doesn't really work well in practice.

Pure libertarianism focuses too much on individual rights without acknowledging the reality that we aren't born into such a world, we're social animals and we're born into large societies that we're forced to conform to which in may ways benefits us all, but hurts us as well.

No one gets rich or wealthy alone, they get it from society and that can't be a one way street. Those people who have money to spend on roads only have it because of society, like it or not, the owe society something back for that.

Libertarians believe government doesn't work so the less there is the better, and this is mostly correct; big government doesn't work and can't because there is no one set of rules that all people will ever agree too, but local government, say city level, must work because the only alternative is lawlessness. That being the case, ridding ourselves of federal influence would allow us to segregate into like minded communities where rules can be established that all agree to. Some cities might want prayer in school, others might not, some want everyone to carry a gone while others want to outlaw guns, and that's as it should be, live and let live by recognizing that 300 million people won't ever agree so don't force them to.

The flaw in our society is not government, it's how big and non local we've let it become.