[supergarfield]

Really? I feel like having an opinion based on reasoning from first principles should make discussion easier, because you can try and challenge any element in that explicit chain of reasoning. On the other hand, if someone adheres to ideology X because they feel like it's right, I wouldn't know where to start.

[dmwallin]

The problem is their opinion often aren't actually based on first principles. Humans have a strong tendency to form an opinion for various emotional and social reasons, and then build up a set of justifications ex post facto, often without realizing it. The more intelligent you are the easier it is to do subconsciously and it's often harder for your ego to admit the strong role your id played.

[hardlianotion]

But if that is happening, presumably it shows up in your reasoning and can be critiqued.

[kayodelycaon]

This requires the person to be self-aware to a significant degree. That is a completely different skill from logical thinking.

Logical thinking is one tool for developing self-awareness but not a necessary one.

For myself, I’m bipolar. Self-awareness is critical to keeping myself grounded and processing extreme emotions safely. Many people have told me I am an expert at this and I still fall into this trap again and again. I just eventually realize it.

I know many smart people who are blind or willfully ignorant of their own assumptions. This includes a number of vocal advocates of theology, philosophy, and rationality.

[airza]

That's the dream :) but unfortunately it is quite difficult in practice, even when you are aware it is a potential issue. It seemed to make them more able to have nuanced discussions about some things, but much much more stubborn in the things they were confidently wrong about.

[WalterSear]

Parent is conflating intelligence with arrogance, with the underlying mispresumption being that intelligent people inherently lack self-awareness.

[dmwallin]

It's more that intelligent people are still human, and human beings are not good at being clear-headed when they feel that their identity is being attacked (ego protection). If you identify as "rational" or "intelligent" that makes you vulnerable to defensive behaviors to defend your self-perception.

[ardy42]

> The problem is their opinion often aren't actually based on first principles. Humans have a strong tendency to form an opinion for various emotional and social reasons, and then build up a set of justifications ex post facto, often without realizing it. The more intelligent you are the easier it is to do subconsciously and it's often harder for your ego to admit the strong role your id played.

A more pithy/cheeky way of saying that would be the "Rationalists" are really Rationalizers.