[bko]

Oh I didn't know that.

Can you point me to their liability policy?

[EDIT] this was the best I could find

> You are always ultimately responsible for driving in a safe manner, even when using Pilot Assist.

https://www.volvocars.com/uk/support/topics/use-your-car/car...

I don't think comma.ai should be faulted for being open. I have trouble finding any statements on liability on any other lane assist technology. Would love to be proven wrong with an actual policy.

[gkop]

Volvo sells a car with an optional feature that has hardware and software components. If you can prove that the hardware or software is “unreasonably dangerous” in design or implementation, you may have standing to sue Volvo.

Comma sells only some hardware (with some limited software?). Comma suggests, but is careful not to encourage for street use, that customers modify the hardware with open source software that makes the hardware dramatically more useful. If the hardware functions perfectly but this software proves unreasonably dangerous, you do not likely have standing to sue Comma.

I think it’s really cool that late model cars are adequately unencumbered to make experimentation like Comma possible. Aside from the sketchy commercialization, Comma seems impressive and valuable. I have seen no evidence Comma is any less safe than the auto manufacturers’ LKA products.

My beef is that Comma-the-product imposes an externality on our roads by bringing experimental driver assistance software to the mass market that is not backed by the software product’s developers (or any other entity).

[bko]

> If you can prove that the hardware or software is “unreasonably dangerous” in design or implementation, you may have standing to sue Volvo

I imagine this is true for comma as well. I don't think their little waiver and notice that it should only be used in a research setting would hold up in court. Much like "incense" were banned despite being marked "not for human consumption".

> My beef is that Comma-the-product imposes an externality on our roads by bringing experimental driver assistance software to the mass market that is not backed by the software product’s developers (or any other entity).

I think their product is safe and I'm glad it exists out there. They claim 35 million miles driven and I am yet to see one serious accident. So I think the risk is overstated.

People like Thiel often complain about the lack of innovation. This is real innovation and could transform society. I think we should applaud the people that have the audacity to tackle hard problems that can change people's lives. The only way you'll get there is real miles driven on real roads. As a society, we should not have a zero risk attitude, otherwise nothing would ever get built.

[Piskvorrr]

In the technical aspect you are correct. In the legal aspect, nope. Even if (for the sake of the example) this were identical technology under the hood w/ Volvo and Comma, there's a world of difference between "I bought a stock car that is certified to be street-legal" and "I installed some aftermarket thing into my car, despite being warned that it might void the car's street-legality."

It's not just what you think, not least because your driver's license is a permit, not a right. (On the other hand, I agree that the bar requested for computer driving safety is at least an order of magnitude higher than for human driving safety, and that the elephant in the room is the risky road environment that we pretend doesn't exist for humans.)