[quesera]

> Fauci admitted he lied for the greater good.

Again, this is repeated a lot -- but it does not match my memory, nor can I find evidence of it in my searches.

If you know differently, please share a link.

> He could have suggested cloth masks.

IIRC, the consensus pre-COVID and post-SARS, was that cloth masks are inferior to N95 masks. When the supply of N95 masks was not considered unreliable, there was no need for public health to think about bandanas.

In Feb/Mar, before asymptomatic transmission was proven, it was reasonable to not bother suggesting cloth masks, and simultaneously to preserve the "useful" (N95) masks for the most at-risk.

> US is so dead.

There were so many failures. The system that Fauci was relying upon turned out to not have been funded. Maybe he should have known that, but I'm not sure he had visibility into the problem.

I see Fauci as the firefighter who arrives at the scene, hooks up the hoses, and discovers that the hydrants are dry and the city hadn't bothered to tell anyone.

I'm sure it's more complicated than that. He has definitely made some mistakes, but the system which is supposed to back him up has completely failed him and all the rest of us.

[ergocoder]

"I don't regret anything I said then because in the context of the time in which I said it, it was correct. We were told in our task force meetings that we have a serious problem with the lack of PPEs," he said.

https://www.businessinsider.com/fauci-doesnt-regret-advising...

It makes no sense since cloth masks don't cause PPE shortage.

> IIRC, the consensus pre-COVID and post-SARS, was that cloth masks are inferior to N95 masks. When the supply of N95 masks was not considered unreliable, there was no need for public health to think about bandanas.

It's inferior but still better than nothing.

So, you agree that cloth masks are better than nothing.

> In Feb/Mar, before asymptomatic transmission was proven, it was reasonable to not bother suggesting cloth masks,

The precautionary principle 101.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precautionary_principle

They should have be cautious first. Like come on, it's beginner's level of crisis management.

They even implied against it (because you would touch your face and etc.)

A tweet from US surgeon general: https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/healthcare/2020/03/0...

"They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk!"

Why would you say masks are NOT effective? With emphasis on NOT.

Fauci never refuted this tweet at the time, so what were we supposed to think?

> I see Fauci as the firefighter who arrives at the scene, hooks up the hoses, and discovers that the hydrants are dry and the city hadn't bothered to tell anyone.

It's more like he showed up and said water didn't help put out fire. Let's not use water.

He also didn't regret it because, well, we were in the water shortage period.

> He has definitely made some mistakes

A mistake that caused many lives.

He made a bad judgement call. Bad at communication with public. No idea how to manage crisis.

Just say "hey, it looks like a flu. We should be cautious and cover our face with something. Please don't buy n95 because doctors need it".

At the time, I covered my face in public and kept saying masks worked, and I felt like an anti-vaxx for going against "science". What a shit show.

[quesera]

"Masks" meant something different in March than it does now.

Cloth masks were a thing in Asia, but the US had never thought about them much. They were not available for sale.

When Fauci discouraged use of masks among the general public, but implored that they be conserved for medical professionals, he was speaking in the context of PPE. N95 masks, etc.

Sometime in March, people started asking "well do cloth masks work at all"? And there was no consensus answer until (IIRC) early May.

Maybe someone should have said "Hey, we don't know for sure, we've never studied it -- but they use cloth masks in Asia and they have more experience than we do. They certainly can't hurt as long as you recognize clean side/dirty side, and wash them regularly. You can't buy them, but you can make them. Don't make them poorly."

Remember that Fauci was sidelined for a while in there though. And that his job is not public health communications management.

I really don't think you can blame Fauci for the failures here. His messaging, when able to speak, was not that confusing or contradictory. And yet he still got in trouble with the people who wanted him to be less honest. He was simply not able to counter the extreme bloviation and misinformed dishonesty coming from the administration. And he received death threats for trying!

Blame Deborah Birx, a bit, for conflicting signals and bending to pressure. Blame Jerome Adams, for not having the background to separate truth from fiction, and lacking the strength to demand accuracy and clarity. But even those two didn't have much power, their biggest error was lending the appearance of credibility to the broken process which employed them. Blame their boss for having an agenda at odds with direct and honest communication.

Anthony Fauci did not save us, nor did Robert Redfield. We all wish they had. They both spoke honestly when given the chance though, and in a functional government, they (along with the rest of NIAID, CDC, HHS, and OSG) might have given the country a fighting chance.

Or maybe not. Most of the rest of the world is in pretty rough shape too.

[ergocoder]

> Maybe someone should have said "Hey, we don't know for sure, we've never studied it -- but they use cloth masks in Asia and they have more experience than we do

Nah.

Putting any filter between 2 people are going to reduce particle exchange. Even bad filter would do.

Isn't this just physics regardless of whether it's classical or quantum?

Asian countries don't have greater insight. It's common sense. Someone coughs at us. We put anything on our face to reduce the particles reaching us. Somehow you tried to argue that this was a recent scientific discovery.

We can agree to disagree.

The fact remains. Fauci could have easily recommended bandana or any type of face covering. He didn't. He even admitted he lied for the greater good. He didn't even think of bandana. And this is the best person we have in US...

[quesera]

> Putting any filter between 2 people are going to reduce particle exchange. Even bad filter would do.

That's really not true though.

Early speculation included aerosol transmission, which is not effectively stopped by cloth.

Anyone strongly endorsing cloth for aerosol containment would have been wrong, and blamed for misleading the public, and lost their job, probably.

Current estimates put cloth masks at a ~15% reduction in transmission by droplet. This is significant and important and makes them worth wearing! But if it had been aerosols, they would be <1% effective. And if people believed them to be effective, more people would have been infected.

We will disagree on whether Fauci lied. I believe that he did not lie, although I do believe he was duty-bound to speak when no one had perfect information, and that some of the things he said were misinterpreted.

I never read anything from him that communicated "masks do not work". I did read "masks are not perfect, most people don't know how to use them correctly (N95), they are awkward and uncomfortable to use properly, they are essential for health care workers, they are in short supply, and having a false sense of security is dangerous". This is the message I took from him last spring. Although I was definitely aware of the dishonest noise in the air, it was not coming from Fauci.

I wish he had been in possession of perfect information, and had been able to communicate it with perfect clarity, and without interference from batshit-crazy alternaquacks. No one else was better though. Many were far worse.

[ergocoder]

> We will disagree on whether Fauci lied. I believe that he did not lie, although I do believe he was duty-bound to speak when no one had perfect information, and that some of the things he said were misinterpreted.

Two points that are worth repeating;

1. The precautionary principle. We should be more cautious. This is crisis management 101. It was way more likely that masks would help than not.

2. Fauci admitted he lied as in he didn't regret anything because of the PPE shortage. Not because he thought masks didn't work. This implied he believed masks worked but didn't want to say it out loud.

> But if it had been aerosols, they would be <1% effective.

If it was aerosol, many many more people would be infected. It would have been 10x. This was already unlikely back them.

Again, with the lack of data, we should have been more cautious. Not less cautious.

Even aerosol was true, wearing masks would still be better.

"False sense of security" is mostly a myth. It's a pandemic. We could have done both social distancing and wearing masks.

Not sure why you assume wearing masks and other activities are mutually exclusive.

Just because I wear a firefighter suit doesn't mean I will run toward every fire I see. Be real.