[qubit000]

The CCP consists of 90M+ party members who represent all facets of society--larger than entire population of Germany. Include family members and it's 300M+ almost size of US.

Furthermore, it's an integral part of Chinese society with overwhelming support among its citizens (>90%). The CCP is continuation of past dynasties operating under the 'Mandate of Heaven' to serve the people. Failure to do so and it will be replaced.

So no, this often repeated fallacy by the west that they condemn CCP not the Chinese people is not only ignorant but supremely arrogant and condescending in assuming 1.4B are somehow mindless robots at the mercy of the few.

Demonizing the CCP, is in effect, directly insulting the Chinese people.

[Hnrobert42]

They are not mindless robots. They are doing the best the can living in a totalitarian state operating the most sophisticated internal surveillance ever.

How can you claim they the CCP has support with a straight face? First, says who? CCP-controlled media? Second, would the average Chinese person answer honestly? Third, the Chinese have never experienced real democracy. Asking them if they support the CCP is meaningless. It’s like asking a third-gen Red Sox fan if they support the Rex Sox.

[qubit000]

Why would a totalitarian state allow 150M+ of its citizens to travel abroad annually pre-covid to experience 'democracy/freedom' yet despite doing so they overwhelmingly returned to their supposedly oppressive country.

As for 'real democracy' no country has it least of all the US which more accurately an oligarchic plutocracy with power held by select few/wealthy(ie top 1%).

[Hnrobert42]

Ultimately, they are sufficiently confident in their indoctrination that they are unafraid that exposure to other ideologies will lead to a rejection of their own. Where they are not confident, they do limit travel. See their cancellation of passports for Hong Kongers.

I will not respond to your whataboutism argument as it is beside my point.

[qubit000]

The govt is confident that most citizens will see the downsides of democracy and how it leads to much social divisiveness and govt dysfunction as evidenced by the US.

HKrs fomenting riots/violence and breaking the law have rightfully had their passports confiscated to face consequences of their actions.

[throwaway12jkbn]

I think the logic in this argument is faulty.

The CCP is an institution. Your argument implies that belonging to an institution means agreeing 100% with every single decision of the institution.

As, an example, imagine we are talking about a specific action Google took. While you could argue that all Google employees have some kind of responsibility in action s the company takes, would you argue that the millions of the company employees agree with every decision the institution takes?

One can be offended for anything. I fail to see what is arrogant or condescending about criticising an institution (even if millions of people belong to it).

P.S. I am ignoring the dynamics/incentives of being a member of an institution, which could be many more than agreeing with everything the institution does or say.

[qubit000]

No, the CCP is the governing body of China which is a sovereign entity. CCP contains multiple factions representing all facets of society hence 90M+ membership who do not all agree and have agendas.

What distinguishes CCP from western governments is that party membership and advancement is based on meritocracy not populism resulting in only the most qualified/accomplished rising to positions of leadership.

[dragonwriter]

> What distinguishes CCP from western governments is that party membership and advancement is based on meritocracy not populism

What makes the CCP like the West, though it's different in other ways, is that advancement in the CCP is based largely on the convenience of your views and actions to the established elites, which is only “meritocracy” to the extent that “advancing the interests of the established elites” is “merit”.

[qubit000]

No, the meritocracy is actually defined by performance/KPIs which determine advancement. For example all party members must first pass 2 tests before acceptance as members than work at local rural level to advance from there.

There is no concept of 'established elites' because even the poorest can rise to top as President Xi has.

[tim333]

I'm sure a lot of Chinese are not fans even if they are forced to join by practical considerations. Like most communist systems they are unable to have democratic elections because people would vote them out.

[qubit000]

In a country of 1.4B not everyone is going to agree which is evident in US w/only 1/4 of population. Chinese are free to immigrate elsewhere if the choose to do so.

Chinese citizens elect leaders at local level who in turn elect those above them and this continues to the highest levers where only the most competent rise to the top.

Communism is a misnomer when applied to China. It is no more communist than US is a democracy. In fact in many ways China is more democratic than US whereby it's govt of 90M+ members more accurately represent interests of Chinese society.