[londons_explore]

> welter of vendors hawking KN95 masks, a Chinese-made equivalent that researchers say is less effective.

Citation? Ther actual written standards of N95 vs KN95 are very similar, and if anything KN95 is probably slightly better. To meet KN95, the mask must be shown not to let air pass around the edges even while doing vigorous exercise, whereas N95 has no such requirement.

This is notable in the shape of N95 and KN95 masks. Some N95 masks look like someone just hit the "circle" button in some CAD software, whereas KN95 masks clearly have effort to actually being human-shaped.

[kokey]

I think the problem is more about buying masks from sellers on Aliexpress with KN95 printed on it which may or may not have actually been tested to meet those requirements. These are the same items that independent sellers on Amazon will end up selling. I'm sure the same happens with some N95/FFP2 masks but from my anecdotal experience this seems to be less common.

[blub]

As the downvoted comment explains, there's good quality masks coming out of China and there's tons of questionable quality masks. Differentiating between the two is difficult if not impossible.

Personally I am using some Chinese made masks every now and then from a reasonably well known company, but they are CE certified FFP2 masks. Still prefer big brands when I can get them though, but they're still ridiculously expensive.

[michaelg7x]

I'm sure you're aware -- but I was very surprised to find out -- that the European CE certification mark was _quite_ so similar to the younger China Export Mark: https://www.ybw.com/vhf-marine-radio-guide/warning-dont-get-...

[Semaphor]

Also note that it’s an urban myth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_marking#China_Export

[david_allison]

Anecdata: I saw an incorrect CE mark (presumably China Export) a couple of weeks after learning about it (Dec 2020).

The citation's from 12 years ago and may no longer be accurate.

[Semaphor]

They even mention CE compliant products not adhering to the logo’s formal specification. There is literally nothing that makes it "presumably China Export".

[michaelg7x]

Ha! Every day's a school day ...

[Semaphor]

Then they might as well use the real logo as the CE mark for medical equipments also has to include the standard tested for, and the lab which did the certification (for Chinese masks that’s 99% a lab in Turkey)

[blub]

What's up with Turkey? Recently bought German made masks and they were CE certified by a Turkish company/organisation.

[Semaphor]

Which one was it? The common one is Universal Certification and Surveillance Services Trade Co. [0]

What I’ve heard, is that almost all the European labs had crazy backlogs for certification of PPE and the Turkish one was the only one with capacity.

[0] www.universalcert.com

[ungruntled]

CE, as far as I can tell, is self certified. Meaning that any company can simply register in the EU and slap the logo on their product. Otherwise, in the US, the same thing happens with FDA registration. Mask companies claim FDA approval when they mean that they simply have registered their product. Registration does not imply approval or certification, its means that the company declares its selling goods of a certain type. I’ve had the issue of mask sellers even provide bogus registration information for unrelated product categories.

[shakna]

Unfortunately, most masks that say they meet the KN95 standard simply don't [0]. Whilst there was an uptick in non-compliant masks after the pandemic, ECRI's findings for previous time periods were about half of batches tested were faulty.

[0] https://assets.ecri.org/PDF/COVID-19-Resource-Center/COVID-N...

[ardy42]

> Citation? Ther actual written standards of N95 vs KN95 are very similar, and if anything KN95 is probably slightly better. To meet KN95, the mask must be shown not to let air pass around the edges even while doing vigorous exercise, whereas N95 has no such requirement.

In my experience, actual KN95s have extensive leakage, especially around the nose. One factor may be that Western faces and Asian faces are different, and my understanding is that the KN95 standard and masks are tailored to Asian facial structures.

For instance, this is an assessment of a KN95 style mask I actually bought at a Menard's clearance a few months ago. It definitely has fit problems around my nose.

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/respirators/testing/results/...

> While the above-listed product classification has similar performance requirements to NIOSH-approved devices, NIOSH does not have knowledge about the sustained manufacturer quality system and product quality control for these products. NIOSH also does not have knowledge about the product’s handling and exposures after leaving its manufacturer’s control.

> In addition, this product is an ear loop design. Currently, there are no NIOSH-approved products with ear loops; NIOSH-approved N95s have head bands. Furthermore,limited assessment of ear loop designs, indicate difficulty achieving a proper fit. While filter efficiency shows how well the filter media performs, users mustensure a proper fit is achieved.

[ungruntled]

I have 3 different brands of what are claimed to be KN95 masks. All do not fit in different ways. All use plastic nose bends, ear loops and either air comes out sides, chin, or nose area. I have 3M trifold N95s from before the pandemic and those fit perfectly without significant effort. The nose area uses metal and dense foam to ensure seal. I think the main seal issue with KN95s is that they are thin, flimsy and are missing some basic features like the foam, metal nose piece and head band.

[OJFord]

I don't know, I didn't look into it - note I quoted that from the OP.

[ycombigator]

Yeah, but the Chinese masks likely overwhelmingly wont meet the standard.

The first batch might...