[ceilingcorner]

I don’t think anyone other than programmers thinks DST is much of an inconvenience. The clock changes twice a year, big deal. That’s infinitely less complicated than asking your boss if you can start earlier, which means the store at the subway station will need to be open an hour earlier (since its business comes from commuters), which means restaurants will need to be open earlier to address the lunch crowd, which means your doctor will need to schedule appointments earlier, on and on.

[ghaff]

In all fairness, people like parents with young children, pets, etc. find time changes disruptive. That said, there are good reasons to shift schedules in mid latitudes and daylight saving time is a good way to do that if you don't want 4am sunrises in the summer or heading out in the pitch black in the winter.

The reality is that if you don't do daylight savings, you're not going to have a collective switch in schedules and you're going to have to deal with what, for most, is sub-optimal sunlight.

Personally, I don't care much now because I mostly set my own schedule. But I'd have hated eliminating daylight savings when I was on a more fixed schedule.

[u678u]

If they find time changes disruptive, changing schedules instead of time is going to be equally disruptive.

[ghaff]

Sure. My assumption is that absent formal time changes, schedules won't change and people will just live with what, for many, is sub-optimal schedules with respect to sunlight.

[icoder]

So then you're back to square one right? Where (apparently) the preference was given to DST (with its downsides), above sub-optimal schedules.

(Edit: Combining both your replies I think that may actually be your point)

[ghaff]

My preference is definitely to slant towards evening sunlight, so DST year round. (I actually live somewhere that should really be in the next timezone east anyway.) Though I'm at least somewhat sympathetic to people who don't want kids to be waiting for school buses or otherwise heading to school in pitch darkness in the winter.

[mindslight]

> I'm at least somewhat sympathetic to people who don't want kids to be waiting for school buses or otherwise heading to school in pitch darkness in the winter.

That's another problem that needs to be fixed on its own, by moving the school schedules back an hour or two and making older grades start later instead of earlier. There has been enough research showing that the current schedule is horrible for learning.

[GoblinSlayer]

What's the problem with 4am sunrises?

[ghaff]

Because most people would prefer the 4am-5am hour of sun in the evening after work.

[GoblinSlayer]

What, morning sunlight is worse than evening sunlight?

[ghaff]

For many people? Yes. They wake up in time to go to work and they do their outdoor recreational activities in the evening. Of course, there are morning people who appreciate early morning time to go for a run or whatever but I'm willing to bet that most people prefer their sunlight after work.

[xboxnolifes]

I prefer the sun out when I'm awake.

[GoblinSlayer]

Yes? The sun is out in the morning for sure.

[freeopinion]

Then get off work at 3am?

[toyg]

> I don’t think anyone other than programmers thinks DST is much of an inconvenience.

I don't think anyone other than programmers thinks DST is not a huge pain in the ass.

Twice a year your bodyclock gets screwed up and you risk getting to work at the wrong time; once a year you even get a shorter night of sleep.

In Europe (hardly "programmer's country"), it took very simple polling to discover that DST was hugely unpopular. The population at large simply does not benefit, it was introduced for the good of industry and we're largely leaving behind that world. Good riddance.

[BrandoElFollito]

To be fair, the polling went largly unnoticed (at least in France). I discovered it by chance in the middle of summer, shortly before it got closed.

Then the results were published and a few people were pissed off for not having been informed.

OTOH, it would have had been a discussion for 20 years otherwise.

I am happy we just have one tole shift left (to move to summer time, yay for me because I am on the western edge of a timezone)

[bluefirebrand]

> I don’t think anyone other than programmers thinks DST is much of an inconvenience. The clock changes twice a year, big deal

Everyone, and I mean everyone, I talk to about DST hates DST and wants it gone. It's definitely not just programmers who dislike it.

[Johnny555]

I think it's hugely inconvenient, I have to shift my waking and sleeping time by an hour twice a year and it takes at least a week to settle into the new schedule, and I have at least a half dozen clocks to shift time on, including one that needs a ladder.

Without DST why would I need to ask my boss to start an hour earlier? I've lived in places without DST and it was just fine, I didn't notice or miss any "extra" hour of daylight.