[avindroth]

Why are you so mad. Your argument is so overblown that even the modicum of value that is in your argument is rendered useless.

Why don’t you ask people to invent math, then, and not show them the way? Why even teach anything? Of course people learn by checking their proof and being thorough, but it’s up to them. Solutions can provide certainty for people, much like how peers and peer review system can in science. Even the most decorated academics need a second opinion, and you are pretending like that isn’t a thing.

I think you need to stop being so harsh and get over yourself. Not everybody uses a solutions manual the way you think.

[aspaceman]

I TAed for this course. That's why I'm so mad. I have a personal stake in this game and you're talking out of your ass. I ain't asking them to invent math any more than I ask a painter to invent painting, or a writer to invent writing. Do they have solutions guides?

I'm not asking anyone to invent math. I'm asking them to work through the solutions and attempt to find a proof themselves. A _proof_. Not a solution. Christ.

Reading only solutions for proof-based mathematics misses the entire point of writing proofs. It's learning how to write. Do essay based courses have solution guides? Does your English course have a solution guide for the essay? How do you get better at writing? You read the written word. You read examples. Just like the examples Jeff works out tirelessly in every single chapter for you. Then you're expected to do it yourself.

Read the actual damn exercises in the book instead of talking out of your ass from the comment section. Each question requires at least a couple paragraphs of articulation. Some require multiple pages - single spaced. Are you asking Jeff to provide a 5000 page solution guide for these problems? Some of these are even research problems, writing all the solutions to them would likely award Jeff a Turing Award.

Just like writing, there's a lot of other resources and books to read out there. Plenty of things to reference and places to find inspiration in. But it has to be on your own. You can't just pull out "Great Gatsby Essay Solutions Guide" and use it to write your essay. I don't care if that's "just how you learn".

Christ. I'm so angry because every one wants to teach every subject like it's fucking Calc 1. And that's plain idiocy. The entire value I got out of this course in undergrad was technical writing. Learning how to actually "write" a proof, and not just nonsensically sling notation at a poor soul. Comparing Jeff's writing with mine, seeing where I tripped up, and trying again.

When I TA-ed for the course, I had to fail so many students who "had the right solution" and they did. They had the perfect answer, that they copied from the fuck next door and couldn't write about to save their life. The alegbra was exquisite, the typesetting immaculate, the writing and logic completely incomprehensible. 1/5 points. Every time. Most of them couldn't compose a single full sentence.

Fuck the solutions. And fuck your mentality.

[Eugeleo]

I won't comment on your attitude, to not stir up your emotions even more. I'll just pick a little paragraph from your comment:

> The entire value I got out of this course in undergrad was technical writing. Learning how to actually "write" a proof, and not just nonsensically sling notation at a poor soul. Comparing Jeff's writing with mine, seeing where I tripped up, and trying again.

Specifically:

> Comparing Jeff's writing with mine, seeing where I tripped up, and trying again.

Hey, you get it! You spent an entire screen trying to pretend that having model solutions is wrong and useless and pointless, but you made a slip up and admitted you've known the value all along! Oopsie.

But yeah, I understand your point (kind of), but you yourself seem to find value in comparing your solutions with the 'correct' ones — not only the contents, but the formulation as well. Do you find it so hard that others, maybe some that aren't from Illinois at all and just like the book, would do the same?

[aspaceman]

My entire point is he’s written all the model solutions you need. They’re in the notes. That’s what I compared with. I didn’t have additional resources I’m talking about here. Just comparing my proofs with the ones given in the notes above.

You can’t possibly write all the other ones. It’s not humanly possible. Try it. You’ll get a Turing award if you do.

[avindroth]

Your analogies are actually terrible. If you can’t see it, I am sorry.

And also, this is not reddit or Twitter. Hell, the reason why you are being this angry is probably because it’s a forum like this. People here won’t respond to your anger like a troll. If you like the response, keep going. Everybody has their own psychological quirks.

I honestly don’t have time to read the entirety of a book I am commenting on. I never said I read the book. So you clearly know more about the book, more about the professor, etc.

But that doesn’t give you the fucking right to rage, does it.

Out of personal curiosity, I have read your comments in other threads. You get angry. A lot. For no reason. If you are educated and have a lot of stake and experience, you should at least pretend to be humble so that you don’t throw dirt on educated people like yourself (e.g. your professor).

You are making us all look bad :)