[not_a_moth]

I don't know, anecdotally, relationships broke down with me and other stakeholders, and I ended up leaving the company, after I pushed hard for an amazing candidate, the first to ever ace my interviews, whereas said other stakeholders wanted a certain diversity candidate, who while I enjoyed meeting didn't do that well. The funny thing is in SF it's the bro-y white guy CEOs who push the wokeness the hardest. Almost feels performative. SF needs to solve these problems if they want to be a tech mecca.

[__turbobrew__]

How is rejecting a candidate soley based on race not racial discrimination?

This is illegal where I live; it is probably why companies never give interview feedback to the interviewees because they make these illegal hiring decisions behind the scenes but then say “it wasn’t a good fit”.

[greatgoat420]

So in general companies will reject people based on race an sex all the time. In fact most of the time when candidates who are not fitting their mold come up. It is super easy to avoid pushback if you plead culture fit as an issue or just judge their responses more strongly. The person who would oversee that won't know what suboptimal solution would really mean, other than unqualified. Maybe they had an unused variable. Maybe they didn't explain themselves.

[lazyasciiart]

> I pushed hard for an amazing candidate, the first to ever ace my interviews, whereas said other stakeholders wanted a certain diversity candidate

Your reading of this comment is "other stakeholders rejected an excellent candidate solely based on race". The actual information given was that the commenter really liked one candidate, and the other stakeholders preferred a different candidate who was somehow "diverse". While I think the commenter probably agrees with your interpretation, it seems equally likely to me that their candidate evaluation was bad, and that the other stakeholders did not use diversity as their sole criteria.

[xenihn]

Racial discrimination is a legal concept. There is no racial discrimination if you lack the following:

- evidence

- witnesses who are willing to testify

- legal action

Whether it actually happened or not is irrelevant.

[andrei_says_]

And everyone in the company being Caucasian and Asian doesn’t count :)

Just like the photo of the C-suite of most companies being 99% male doesn’t count as sexism.

[vharuck]

Yes, it does technically fit "racial discrimination." However, some people use that simpler term to talk about historic and current power imbalances. In the United States, there were a lot of extra barriers for non-white people. Some still exist, but there's also the self-perpetuating barriers, like how children from poor households are likely to be poor adults. So, if somebody wants to help solve "racial discrimination," being "race blind" would mean letting past wrongs stay wrong.

[ekianjo]

Where does education fit in in your assumptions ? Even poor people make it up the social ladder thru education. Most of our ancesters were farmers, and most of them very poor too.

[cma]

You have things like alumni admissions preference at schools that didn't allow black people within just a couple alumni generations.

[lazyasciiart]

Or public school districts neatly drawn to separate rich white areas from poor black areas.

[HarryHirsch]

In the United States, there were a lot of extra barriers for non-white people

Join us in Alabama! Here, they put up barriers for everyone that wasn't a large landowner or industrialist. This set back descendants of black slaves, but descendants of white sharecroppers were equally caught up in the net. Arguably, the poor whites were worse off - every black guy realized they were being oppressed, but a good number poor whites had the wool drawn over their eyes.

[danaliv]

I would very much like to know the other seven sides to this story.

[warent]

Well I can share my individual perspective as a tall white guy. Sure, I've been through extraordinary struggles and life difficulties in my early adulthood, yet life is still pretty much easy mode just from the privilege.

If you've ever read The Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan, the best way I can describe it is it almost feels like being ta'veren. Even if I'm having an off-day, not performing well, doing the wrong things, saying the wrong things, I still get the results I need/want and it all works out.

If a company rejects me in favor of diversity, even my struggles are already relatively so easy to resolve that it's just like, good for them, I'll go to the countless other opportunities.

Not saying it's right or wrong, but I feel like the last person who needs a champion.

[cwperkins]

Are you also college educated? Under 30, middle-aged or old? Why treat "White Guys" as a monolith?

[sudosysgen]

Sure, that's true. But being tall, attractive, and white, lets you get away with a lot of things were being under 30 and college educated doesn't matter as much.

For me, just growing out my hair and beard, which give away my ethnicity, result in drastically different treatment. Same for attractiveness, if I wear contact lenses and make an effort to look a certain way, life in general becomes significantly easier.

[warent]

The comment opens with "I can share my individual perspective" There's no intent to negate other people's struggles at all.

Here's the hypothesis. If life is like an RPG, then whiteness / being male (in America) is a passive buff you get in character creation, like "+10 Social Points"

Truly, for many people, that still isn't enough to offset the many other debuffs life can bring.

[cwperkins]

The context of the original post is a hiring manager moralizing only considering candidates from underrepresented groups. I think many people have a deep sense of empathy for the struggles of people trying to climb the economic ladder and starting from a lesser point. I commend Apple for investing in the Propel center in Atlanta and creating a developer program in Detroit as creative ways to alleviate the social problem, but a hiring manager exclusively considering underrepresented minorities is discrimination and will lead to more racial resentment. If we are to work towards an inclusive future it means everyone is included and I really think we'd achieve more by working together than fighting. I think a lot more people have a deep sense of empathy than are given credit for. I'm concerned with the rent seeking behavior that I see and hear instead of a focus on wealth creation and growing the pie for everyone.

I think its great to give personal anecdotes, but I never want to judge an individual person from their group membership. There will definitely be similar experiences across members of a given group.

[jariel]

There are millions of 'Tall White Guys' in prison, earning minimum wage, living on the streets. It's really not that much of a privilege.

[warent]

I was literally homeless and earning minimum wage at one point so this is something I'm familiar with.

[edoceo]

This is awesome! I'm glad you coming up, keep going, don't forget where you came from.

[jariel]

Well it's wonderful that you overcame that.

But if someone who was 'White and Tall' was 'Homeless on Minimum Wage' then that would directly refute the logic that 'Being Tall and White is Easy Mode'.

Just the opposite, it would indicate that 'Being Tall and White is definitely not Easy Mode'.

[oh_sigh]

So why is easy mode easy for you, but hard for other tall white guys? Is it possibly because there is no "easy mode"?

[MikeTheGreat]

First - I don't know if this guy originated the term or not, but he's got an eloquent, well-written explanation about what is meant by "straight white male is easy mode for real life": His original post is here[1], along with two follow up articles [2][3]. Definitely worth taking the time to read.

In terms of why life isn't easy for all tall white guys - being tall, and white, and a guy helps but it's not everything. Some example of how it helps: As a white person I've never had to worry about being pulled over by a cop for "driving while white". A couple years ago when videos of cops shooting black people for things like 'driving away from a traffic stop' horrified me. Obviously it's wrong to drive away from a traffic stop but I couldn't imagine a police officer responding with gunshots if I did that. So yes, my race does make my life easier here in the USA.

Some ways that tall, white, male isn't helpful: none of those things directly get me money/wealth. If I grow up poor I'm going to have a tough life no matter how safe I feel around the police. Being tall is nice, and it's great being able to use the top shelf in my kitchen cabinets, but it doesn't put food on the table (at least, not directly). Similarly, what if one grew up with abusive parents? That can really f*k someone up, and while it's nice not having to worry when I hold hands with my sweetie in public a history of abuse may make it more difficult to find and sustain positive relationships with the women in my life.

So yeah - being tall, and white, and male makes some things easier, but it doesn't fix all the problems for everyone.

[1] https://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-t...

[2] https://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/17/lowest-difficulty-set...

[3] https://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/23/final-notes-for-lowes...

[masonic]

  never had to worry about being pulled over by a cop for "driving while white"

I was pulled over twice in three days in Los Altos a few years ago for a light being out, both times by non-white officers.

Last spring, I was pulled over in Sunnyvale for expired tags (I paid on time; DMV was horribly behind) by an Asian officer.

While I was politely volunteering my documents and proof of payment, a second unit responded with a Latino officer.

They held me for 45 minutes for what should have been a wave-off. To justify their time, they wrote me a fix-it ticket (which required two trips to the courthouse and 5 months to clear.

Now, I'll wager that if the ethnicities were reversed, the average driver has been sufficiently conditioned by narrative to assume a racist motivation... even if pulled over from behind at night, where it's impossible to know driver ethnicity before the stop.

[ajkjk]

Do you really find it absurd that someone is saying they feel like they have a well-known, widely-documented privilege?

[jariel]

There's a difference between 'easy mode' - and possibly having an advantage.

Being tall, or white, might give you an edge in some circumstances, in some places in life.

It does not put life on 'easy mode'.

It's tiring dealing with woke racism - this new world ideology is troubling.

Privilege is having parents who give you $20M - that's 'easy mode'. Otherwise, it's not.

[oh_sigh]

So what do you consider all the tall white males who are in prison or making minimum wage at 30 years old? Are they just mega failures?

[cwperkins]

This is something I suspect is happening at a wide scale and will only create resentment. I like to see Apple investing in things like the Propel center in Atlanta and a new coding program for kids and teens in Detroit. Ibram Kendi asserts that Discrimination can create Equity. That may be true in the short term, but will it be a permanent solution?

[pixel_tracing]

Did you know companies get tax incentives for diversity hiring?

[f430]

I did not know this, is this in Canada too? Because that explains a lot.

[f430]

> SF it's the bro-y white guy CEOs who push the wokeness the hardest. Almost feels performative. SF needs to solve these problems if they want to be a tech mecca.

its like that in vancouver too but with far less money and even far less exits