[nimbius]

This wasnt very surprising when it happened as historically The united states is its own worst enemy when it comes to military counterintelligence assessments. Id surmise no general wants to openly admit to the enemies asymmetric advantage.

Francis Gary Powers was no doubt stunned to find his U2 spyplane tumbling from the skies in 1960 thanks to what I can only imagine is inherent bias in the war room against the enemy. Its also worth noting the Tupolev TU95 bear left Washington scratching its heads for nearly a decade, furiously revising the numbers for speed and range. https://web.archive.org/web/20081211055010/http://www.aviati...

in 2006 china managed to tail a US aircraft carrier and emerge in torpedo range with a Song 039 type submarine, a generation behind the US, which was previously thought incapable of such an operation. https://thediplomat.com/2015/11/closest-encounter-since-2006...

Those unfamiliar with history text might also recall the day when Iran not only detected but casually landed a sophisticated US military drone at one of its airbases. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93U.S._RQ-170_incid...

[JoeyBananas]

What exactly does this incident have to do with counterintelligence? I think you are using that word incorrectly. I also don't understand what those linked incidents have in common. Sure, the US military isn't invulnerable and there is always risk associated with combat.

[ip26]

I think they are saying the US systematically underestimates the enemy's capability so it probably wasn't actually that surprising an F117 was downed.

[tharkun__]

If the US military and government are anything like American companies, then they're good at marketing. Wait, I think with the military it's called propaganda.

I also grew up thinking a Stealth Fighter could never be shot down. It's invisible. No way.

[gns24]

Marketing/propaganda is an important part of defence. Having to actually fight will have costs. The real goal is to convince the enemy that there's no point in fighting.

[rjsw]

> in 2006 china managed to tail a US aircraft carrier and emerge in torpedo range with a Song 039 type submarine, a generation behind the US, which was previously thought incapable of such an operation.

The alternative version of that story is that the Carrier Group commander was quietly commended for not giving away how far out they detected the submarine.

[sanguy]

The extended alternate version is that the SSN Jimmy Carter had been ghosting the Song 039 for <<undisclosed>> days.

[rjsw]

I thought that every carrier group had at least one SSN, using the Jimmy Carter for this kind of thing seems strange.

[sanguy]

Not strange considering where and what the Jimmy is used for.

[afterburner]

Tupolev TU-95, Wikipedia: "First flown in 1952, the Tu-95 entered service with the Soviet Union in 1956 and is expected to serve the Russian Aerospace Forces until at least 2040"

Yeesh, I guess they must have done something right with that plane.

[MagnumOpus]

Same for US bombers - the B52 also first flew in 1952 and is expected to serve into the 2050s. Bomb trucks don't need ultramodern stealth, supercruise, vectored thrust etc - they need air superiority provided by other aircraft, a big jet engine, and reliability.

[jariel]

"stunned to find his U2 spyplane tumbling from the skies in 1960 thanks to what I can only imagine is inherent bias in the war room against the enemy"

The U2 has been flying for literally decades, even to this day, relatively unencumbered. The performance ratio is way in the favour of 'confident war room'.

Also - it's hard to say anything about submarines, they're so clouded in secrecy, I think the truth tends not to come out until a couple of decades after the fact.

[jki275]

It certainly hasn't been flying over the Soviet Union.

It became obsolete in 1960. That doesn't mean it was no longer useful anywhere.

[jariel]

It's running 10-15K mission hours a year since 1960, that's pretty far from obsolete.

[jki275]

Yeah, I know what it does -- it's had many different missions grafted onto it. It's a cool plane.

But I mean it's obsolete for its original mission. It can't fly higher than Soviet SAMs anymore. It hasn't been able to since the 60s.

[boc]

Because the US had a new spy satellite program that took its place.