[aptidude187]

People can succumb to societal pressure and change parts of their identity, doesn't change the fact that it can be a part of their identity.

Out of all points made you pick a single one out and make rubbish arguments. You are not worth my time.

[sheepdestroyer]

It almost feels like you're being misunderstanding and misquoting on purpose.

Genuinely voluntary apostasy, punished by death, happens. And it's clearly 'not succumbing to social pressure' to do it in countries that criminalize it and punish it by death.[1]

And then you replace 'integral part of your identity' by merely 'part of your identity', however that's the important word you're omitting.

When I was younger I liked some styles of music and felt them part of my identity too. Some used to mock and critisize them, and now that my tastes changed, I can see why.

However, particular musical genres were never an integral part of my identity the same way people are gay or not, or have a particular ethnical background.

Attributing some special powers to a class of mere opinions is wrong, misguided and often used as a tool of oppression.[2]

[1]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy

[2]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law

[aptidude187]

>It almost feels like you're being misunderstanding and misquoting on purpose.

Says the guy who responds to a fraction of the arguments and makes absurd arguments expecting to be taken seriously.

>Genuinely voluntary apostasy, punished by death, happens. And it's clearly 'not succumbing to social pressure' to do it in countries that criminalize it and punish it by death.[1]

What the hell are you even on about? You make 0 sense. You were talking about apostasy and I merely explained that it's nothing out of the ordinary that people can succumb to social pressure and change their identity, this was very specific in the context of french society. So spare me your islamophobic rants.

>And then you replace 'integral part of your identity' by merely 'part of your identity', however that's the important word you're omitting.

So? You clearly don't understand the english language very well. Integral merely means "important, essential..." and leaving it out doesn't change the essence of the statement. Keep hairsplitting tho.

>However, particular musical genres were never an integral part of my identity the same way people are gay or not, or have a particular ethnical background.

Terrible comparison. A taste in music is not the same thing as a religion which encompasses almost every aspect of your life. Again, terrible terrible comparison.

>Attributing some special powers to a class of mere opinions is wrong, misguided and often used as a tool of oppression.

Yea, you just perfectly described France's abuse and misuse of 'satire' and 'free speech' to discriminate against minorities. France has its own blasphemy laws, although they don't label them as such, they are functionally and consequentially, the exact same. Not to mention what secular France has done in its colonial past, murdering and torturing millions of Algerians and Africans for resisting occupation and opposing secularism. Learn your own history and present before you try to lecture others.

[sheepdestroyer]

You are the one pretending not to understand English.

The fact that apostasy is possible and exists, in France or elsewhere, is precisely the proof that religion is not 'essential' (to use your own prefered word) to a person's identity. I'll let you look up what "essential" means, it's perfect in this context.

That makes religion far more similar to musical taste (ever heard of Rock'n Roll as a way of life?) than to ethnicity.

By the way, accusing people who criticise the barbary of blasphemy & anti-apostasy laws of islamophobia is a cheap move but quite typical.

[aptidude187]

>The fact that apostasy is possible and exists, in France or elsewhere, is precisely the proof that religion is not 'essential'

Straw man. No one denied that apostasy is possible and exists. The claim was that for some religion can be an integral part of their identity and it's also possible that people can change their identities for various reasons including societal pressure, the desire to fit in or any other reason. That doesn't change the fact that religion is an integral part of some people's identity.

>That makes religion far more similar to musical taste (ever heard of Rock'n Roll as a way of life?) than to ethnicity.

Religion is a set of rules and guidelines to live by, so that comparison is moot, but keep pushing absurd arguments to justify your rubbish takes.

Anyway, you ignore and distort arguments beyond recognition and keep babbling utter nonsense. You are a lost cause, so we are done here, have fun debating yourself.

By the way, distracting people who criticise the barbary of the french abuse of satire & free speech laws with blasphemy laws is a cheap move but quite typical.

[sheepdestroyer]

If it is possible, by a simple intellectual process, to make the choice to renounce religion, it can then not possibly be integral or essential to your identity. That's completely antinomic. You either don't understand those words (and funnily accuses me of misusing English), or are being dishonest.

But I realized you're most likely just a troll. My bad.

Chances are, you're even just a secondary account of jedimind, seeing how you apparently have a habit of intervening at his rescue on other discussions, use the same pattern of purposefully missing the point, name calling and parroting the person you are responding to instead of being relevant.

It is telling though to see how you kept avoiding the concept that by apostasy I was referring to the honest personal choice of people renouncing their religion for intellectual honesty (someday they believe then, maybe after self debating the absurdity of the idea, they don't anymore), but you kept insisting instead that it must be because someone or something forces them to. It really shows how narrow minded you must be.

Keep to your fascist trolling if that pleases you, your moral values are not on the right side of history.

Blasphemy laws and similar barbaric values have been successfully fought and repealed in France (that you seem to despise so much) and other countries, they will eventually be everywhere else too.

[aptidude187]

>If it is possible, by a simple intellectual process, to make the choice to renounce religion, it can then not possibly be integral or essential to your identity. That's completely antinomic. You either don't understand those words (and funnily accuses me of misusing English), or are being dishonest.

By a simple InTeLlEcTuAl pRoCeSs, again, since you lack basic reading comprehension skills, for some people religion is an integral part of their identity, that's not even up to debate. Something can be an integral part of your identity and still change for various reasons, nothing of that will change the fact that it is an integral part of some people's identity. Your embarrassing attempts to defend your absurd claim is just pure comedy.

>But I realized you're most likely just a troll. My bad.

Says the guy who desperately clings to 1 of the many arguments that were made ignoring all others and is not even able to make sense on that front. Embarrassing.

>It is telling though to see how you kept avoiding the concept that by apostasy I was referring to the honest personal choice of people renouncing their religion for intellectual honesty (someday they believe then, maybe after self debating the absurdity of the idea, they don't anymore), but you kept insisting instead that it must be because someone or something forces them to. It really shows how narrow minded you must be.

You are heavily misquoting and distorting yet again. I said that apostasy can occur for various reasons many times, yet you make this completely bizarre and far fetched case just to inflate your terribly false argument.

>Keep to your fascist trolling if that pleases you, your moral values are not on the right side of history.

Says the guy who defends french fascism and persecution of minorities based on fake french values, which only serve the secular elite. The barbary of french colonialism continues, after murdering millions of Algerians and Africans and force their secularism on them, now they try to intellectualise their oppression. France even betrayed the jews and cooperated with the Nazis, delivered them to be murdered, so don't ever talk about being on the right side of history, you never were and never will be.

>Blasphemy laws and similar barbaric values have been successfully fought and repealed in France (that you seem to despise so much) and other countries, they will eventually be everywhere else too.

Nope, wrong. France and its barbaric values are still present in its own blasphemy laws which prohibits denigrating the french flag among other deceptions to not respect its own values, thus violating free speech, but everyone already knows that france has only fake free speech, protecting the rich secular people, but not minorities.