[atomicson]

Old version? You have to understand that some applications need innovation based on new ideas. TeX is only popular in the academic and publishing world, not like a web browser. Can we write a complex equation in TeX as easy as we write in popular word applications like MS Word?

[btilly]

Can we write a complex equation in TeX as easy as we write in popular word applications like MS Word?

Thank you for the most ludicrous comment that I've seen today. The popularity of TeX in academia is exactly because writing complex equations in popular word applications is painfully hard, and the typesetting is poor. By contrast writing them in TeX is easy and the typesetting defaults to excellent.

Talk to anyone who has to actually write many such equations. They will verify that it is not a question of "as easy". It is massively easier and better in TeX. Which is why academics working in math, physics and computer science overwhelmingly choose TeX.

[jimmyvalmer]

> It is massively easier and better in TeX.

Obviously depends on where along the learning curve, and preformed command line literacy, which on a venue like HN is always assumed to be native.

As a hypothetical, consider a Rip Van Winkle situation in which a mathematician wakes from a coma he's been in since the 1970s. Now force him to typeset one of his monographs. He'll do it in MS Word.

[btilly]

Obviously depends on where along the learning curve, and preformed command line literacy, which on a venue like HN is always assumed to be native.

Actually not.

As a hypothetical, consider a Rip Van Winkle situation in which a mathematician wakes from a coma he's been in since the 1970s. Now force him to typeset one of his monographs. He'll do it in MS Word.

I have personal experience pertaining to this.

Before I was a programmer, I was a graduate student in mathematics. I wound up in the early 90s having never used Word or TeX and in a position where I needed to type up a paper. I began with Word, and before long I complained about how hard it was. A fellow grad student said I should learn how to do it in TeX.

It was literally faster, *on the very first paper that I tried to type*, to learn TeX and then type my paper in TeX than it was to try to do it in Word. The visual result was also massively better with TeX. Typesetting math formulas in Word is simply that bad.

I've tried to typeset some simple mathematics in Word since. The experience has not materially improved when it comes to typing real mathematics.

Based on this personal experience, I am quite confident that in the Rip Van Winkle situation that you describe, the mathematician will wind up doing it in TeX. And do it the same way that I did. Try Word because that seems easier. Ask a fellow mathematician when that proves to be a terrible experience. Be pointed at TeX and given a few tips. Discover that it is easier.

[jimmyvalmer]

Okay, you win. Also: our individual opinions become vanishingly insignificant relative to the aggregate opinion of the market, one that continues to pay for MS Equation Editor.

[btilly]

Also: our individual opinions become vanishingly insignificant relative to the aggregate opinion of the market, one that continues to pay for MS Equation Editor.

Actually they don't.

People preferred paying for products like https://www.dessci.com/en/products/mathtype/ which allowed people to type TeX into Microsoft documents than they did Equation Editor. Therefore Microsoft gave up on Equation Editor. They then created an XML-based markup language for math, and MathBuilder around that. Which they then put a TeX translation layer into so that you can type simple TeX in Word, Outlook, and so on, then get a math equation out.

Sadly for Microsoft, they didn't actually remove Equation Editor. I say sadly because they eventually had to. Per https://securityboulevard.com/2018/01/microsoft-kills-old-of... it was found to have a serious security hole, and removing it was easier than fixing it.

Incidentally, despite having both TeX and MathML available to look at, Microsoft failed to turn out something as good as TeX for serious use. As a result most journals will not accept documents produced using Math Builder.

So the aggregate opinion of the market is in. TeX was better than MS Equation Editor. (Which is why TeX outlived MS Equation Editor.)

[jimmyvalmer]

Ah, I see the "Equation Editor" moniker is now defunct. I've long been in the LaTeX camp, so I've no idea what's transpired since 1990s when I last used a quasi-wysiwig entry called "Equation Editor."

How you managed to conclude LaTeX entry is now more popular than whatever quasi-wysiwig method MS Word currently supports is, I suppose, market information I'm not privy to.

[atomicson]

I wrote one. My point is, we need a better way to write a complex equation as easy as we wrote some texts like in MS Word or LibreOffice. That's an innovation. At least some guys in Microsoft or LibreOffice guys already did. Hide the complexity. Maybe one day you could write a complex equation only by voice command. No one will touch TeX anymore.