[coolmitch]

i know nothing about this beyond watching food network - i dont even know the meaning of discipline in a kitchen - but can someone explain why it has to be so tough?

why do they work for such long hours in such shitty conditions for such poor pay? for the love? and what makes it so impossible for a good kitchen to work 8 hour shifts with a lunch break?

it doesn't seem like it gets any cushier late career either, so you aren't really working towards much except status.

Seems like you could make about as much over the course of a career working at a wal mart and have much better hours and health coverage to go along with it

serious question, no disrespect intended

[todd8]

I once had a partner that was a serious orchestra player. She had a technical degree but chose to work in an industry that was exceptionally stressful and paid poorly. She once asked a New York Philharmonic player what would happen if he missed a note and he replied that you could lose your job. I couldn't really understand her choice of career until I was hanging around after a performance, and I saw the camaraderie and the fun that the musicians had back stage. They loved music and loved making it. I imagine, that for some people, being a chef is just a job but for others it's the camaraderie and the pleasure of creating.

I have one good story about the kitchens of top restaurants. I have a friend, charming, smart and funny. When she was younger she attended a one of the world's most famous cooking schools and was happy to land a job in the kitchen in a Michelin rated New York restaurant. There was a chef and many sous chefs, but she was assigned a workspace with a small oven where new recipes were tested. She would have to prove herself before she would allowed to work on food for the patrons.

At some point, the head chef approached her and told her that she might be ready to move to the main kitchen, but first, one special test. She was supposed to prepare a kettle of stock, made from all sorts of unusual ingredients. She even had to visit other restaurants to ask for some of the ingredients. After running around town and cooking for hours, she told the chef that her carefully produced result was ready. She brought it to the main kitchen; everyone stopped working and watched as she brought it over to the head chef. He took one look and said sternly, "But where are the vegetables?" With alarm she realized she was supposed to keep the vegetables and not the stock!!! She was so surprised it left her speechless. A few seconds passed, and then the audience of under-chefs couldn't keep quiet and burst out in applause and laughter--it was just a silly initiation ritual that marked her promotion.

[molsongolden]

> Seems like you could make about as much over the course of a career working at a wal mart and have much better hours and health coverage to go along with it

There’s a lot of camaraderie in the chaotic grind and anyone who thrives in that environment would probably not fare well in the Walmart environment.

AB mentions it some in the OP article, certain types of people find fulfillment in the kitchen and would wither into a depressive/destructive mess without it.

[jfengel]

It doesn't have to be as bad as Bourdain makes it. He had a combative, machismo style and it's no surprise that he found himself surrounded with similar people.

There are a lot of real, inherent difficulties. A kitchen is an enormous amount of work to do, and customers are very price sensitive. There is an enormous amount of overhead cost, and all of that makes the margins very thin.

During service, discipline is paramount, because each table has a lot of things coming together at once, and any mistake makes for a less pleasant experience for the diner. Which is, after all, your job. It's a hospitality industry, not just a food industry.

That makes it hard, but it doesn't have to be horrific. Unfortunately, the culture often makes it horrific: a staff expecting to be treated like Bourdain does creates hostility. They expect to change jobs often. That creates distance, and a self-fulfilling prophecy.

A better-run kitchen pays well, keeps staff, enforces discipline fairly, and ends up costing a bit more for a much better service. And then goes out of business, much of the time.

[sky_rw]

I would say fierce competition from local and immigrant labor, low barrier to entry, a profession where hard work is seen as meritorious, and a very high ceiling of prestige and monetary reward. It’s one of the few remaining industries where a poor immigrant kid on the street can work his way up from nothing via grit and determination.

[killtimeatwork]

> and a very high ceiling of prestige and monetary reward

Is it really? How much do the top chefs make?

[sky_rw]

$50-$100k judging by Glassdoor, very location dependent, but at a high level comes the ability to partner in new restaurants and ventures.

Also it’s a high ceiling relative to other jobs that require zero education.

[forgrace]

lots of prep time and when service kicks in you're at full speed until its over. shitty conditions because of capitalism. won't work for chump change? well there's a line out the door of people that will. and you need to pay the bills.

worked in hospitality for over a decade, ran some restaurants in melbourne, australia as head chef. got out of the game at 27 and am working towards a career in environmental science.

i had a wild time, lots of parties and fun, lots of stress-related breakdowns, failed relationships, unbelievable nights out, travelled the country, ate like a king sometimes and ate hunch over a bin covered in sweat other times. more burns and cuts than i could ever remember.

edit: as for why, i fell into hospitality during school. i lived in a small town and that's how you made enough money to move elsewhere. that industry is a double-edge sword. you can walk into a job almost anywhere once you have experience, but trying to jump ship is like pulling teeth. i'm currently doing volunteer work in my current field just so i can gain relevant experience.