[WookieRushing]

I’m not so sure. Moxies reasons about how federation leads to protocol development slowing and then freezing are solid.

It’s why we re not using smtp for chat. SMTP can’t be extended enough so replacements are built instead. Similarly if signal federated, eventually it would freeze and a few years later users would move to wherever they could get new features.

Federation is a good thing but only when the protocol is finished or if there is a forcing mechanism to allow updates to the protocol. ethereum/Bitcoin are good examples as they have flag days that force the value of currency to be in the balance to keep the protocol moving forward.

[admax88q]

Honestly deltachat works great and its chat over smtp and imap.

Im not sure "chat" needs this much constant "innovation" at the protocol level. Most of the issues with email are client UX more so than actual protocol limitations.

[beermonster]

Not really kept up with the latest with this, but chat over IMAP is a thing

https://archive.fosdem.org/2020/schedule/event/coi/

[rthomas6]

I don't see what prevents updating as long as you don't care about fragmentation. You probably can't compile all brand new software on a very old Linux kernel, but who cares. I mean yeah, you'll have to care more about fragmentation, but it's not all or nothing. You'll still be able to update the protocol, you just have to make breaking changes less often.

I think XMPP is a better comparison than SMTP. In its heyday, XMPP had several clients, some with different proprietary extensions, and all the core functionality basically worked across all the clients. Though it turns out some of the messengers I thought were XMPP were actually different protocols that XMPP could work with. Imagine that. People still use it too, though it's not as popular as it was in the 2000s.