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by sschueller 1966 days ago
Do those come with pre attached NSA listening devices [1] ?

[1] https://siliconangle.com/2013/07/19/how-the-nsa-taps-underse...

3 comments

Most certainly. You don’t land a cable in either the US or France without a classified annex to the license that provides for interconnection to their intelligence services.
Let's say they do tap the cables (I reckon they do too but in case they don't) what can they actually see if the traffic is encrypted?
I recall seeing a story in the past about how the NSA planted a misleadingly weak encryption library.

https://golem.ph.utexas.edu/category/2014/10/new_evidence_of...

If the encryption used is flawed, they could see whatever they want.

> what can they actually see if the traffic is encrypted?

They can see who is talking to who, and when:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_analysis

Source, destination, message length, etc. Lots of interesting meta data to play with.
I’d love to see wireshark running on a saturated 250Tbps link
assuming there isn't a point-to-point encryption layer for the whole cable.
Sure, but the NSA tap probably sits just after that point.
Considering they do intercept, as widely documented, question is how do they see if traffic is encrypted?
Pretty trivial. If it looks like random noise, and doesn't have a compression header then it's probably encrypted.
And at 250tb passing by every second
Nobody knows. Probably not.

But Snowden showed us that a lot of it is scooped up and warehoused. Maybe they can see your traffic in a decade or two?

Forget encryption every second so much data passes through at a time can they even isolate particular data let alone encrypted data. Can they process all that data in real time if not how are they storing it to process later. This is just 1 cable from 1 company there are now dozens of cables of different companies.
> so much data passes through at a time can they even isolate particular data let alone encrypted data.

They can't. That's why they call it "bulk collection."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUSCULAR_(surveillance_program...

There's a reason the vast majority of undersea cables have at least one end in a Five Eyes country. No need to tap it in the middle of the ocean then!
Even if this is true, I think the simple reason might be that one of the five eyes country is US, which is probably the global hub for data and services used throughout the world. Also, Britain being near entrance of Europe from Atlantic, and Australia being near Asia would make economical sense for the cables to take that path.
False. Snowden revelations clearly indicated that tapping undersea cables is (unsurprisingly) difficult to detect.

A lot of surveillance is done both *illegally* and secretly.

Forcing carriers to install black boxes next to their routers is not always the preferred choice.

You are missing the fact that most undersea cables get tapped multiple times. Five Eyes normally inspects the data on land, but enemies will do undersea taps.

While a cable is being tapped, there will be a suspicious change in signal strength, and various signal reflections will tell the cable operators where the tap is. Thats bad for a spy agency who want to remain undetected.

Instead, they break the cable in three points deliberately. The middle point is where they put the tap, and the spy agency will repair it. The points either side are simply so that the cable operators don't know where the tap has been inserted, and have to be repaired by the cable operator. That gets expensive, since it will typically happen 3 or 4 times for a new cable install (3 or 4 countries want access to the data).

Cable repair operations are typically public knowledge (they require specialized ships), so anyone who fancies can crunch the data and see how often a cable breaks in multiple places before being repaired to know how often it's tapped... Mediterranean cables seem to see the most taps.

> You are missing the fact

Please don't make guesses. I'm aware of the tapping process.

> Thats bad for a spy agency who want to remain undetected.

Yes, this is inevitable and it's still extremely more stealth that plugging network taps in somebody's else NOC. Especially if the tapping is done illegally.

The cable itself? Almost certainly not. They don't need to. It terminates in the US.