[pdonis]

> forcing them to do everything else is fine, just as long as no one touches the brain.

I have made no such claim. You keep attacking straw men instead of addressing what I'm actually saying.

> Removing a foot ok though?

I have made no such claim.

> What about the death penalty?

I have already pointed out that the natural consequence (i.e., in a state of nature if there is no society) of attacking someone else for no good reason can be death. So imposing death as a penalty for a sufficiently heinous crime seems to me to be justifiable in principle, if you are sure to a moral certainty that the person did the crime.

Where our current system falls down horribly is in that last part: we impose the death penalty when we are not even close to meeting the strict standard of moral certainty that I just stated.

[Layke1123]

Incorrect. You willingly lock people up for premeditated murder even if the murder did not happen. If I hire a hit man, and they turn out to be an FBI undercover agent, I am now in jail not for committing murder but trying to commit murder.

[pdonis]

Yes, conspiracy to commit murder is also a crime under our current legal system. Do you not think it should be? If not, why not? Instead of name calling, how about some actual arguments?

[Layke1123]

Where did I ever name call you? My position is if you have thoughts to carry out murder and actually show actions that indicate your thoughts might become reality, they can absolutely be used as evidence in the court to convict you of conspiracy to convict murder without ever having to have actually committed murder.

By your whole argument, this person shouldn't be held criminally responsible UNTIL murder has actually occurred.