[nobody9999]

>This was my experience so when people tell me they were "peaceful protests" or the news says "statistically, they were 99.99999999% peaceful" but I look at what I saw with my own eyes, and also what was on TV in other cities... I can't be convinced that they weren't violent, destructive, and plainly, evil, no matter how much other people tell me what to think.

Your point is well taken. I live in a large city. The area where I live, while mixed, is majority minority. My own experience was quite different. No one assaulted teachers from my local school. I saw no businesses burned. I don't know anyone who was directly impacted by the months of daily BLM protests.

Those are my experiences. Why are you telling me what I should believe?

I mirrored my experiences against yours to point out that your anecdotal experience is not the whole of the story. Nor is mine.

Now for some facts that neither you nor I actually experienced:

Where I live there were a few instances of violence against police (and in every single case, nearly all the folks involved were both white and from out of town).

There were also numerous instances of police instigating violence against peaceful protestors.

There were a few instances of looting, and the police and local government addressed them quickly and harshly, as just about everyone, including the protestors (many of whom were captured on video chasing would-be looters away) was horrified and angered by such actions.

There were (and are) violent miscreants who should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. However, those folks were a tiny group compared to those who peacefully protested.

When you hear folks say the protests were "mostly" peaceful, they are empirically correct. Something like 20,000,000 people around the US peacefully protested against police violence.

At most, a few thousand people committed acts of violence and vandalism. Let's say there were even 10,000 (a high number, I suspect) folks who committed violent/destructive acts alongside the peaceful protests.

If that's correct, 99.95% of people protested peacefully and 0.05% of folks were violent/destructive.

I'm not sure how that could be construed as anything other than "mostly peaceful". in fact, I'd characterize it as "overwhelmingly peaceful".

I'm most certainly not telling you what to think or believe. Just presenting my own experiences and a few facts.

Don't take my word for it. I'm just some random asshole on the Internet.

The facts speak for themselves.

[Damorian]

Normally I'd agree, but I'll point you to comments elsewhere in this thread as to why this is misleading. The amount of damage is huge, and this was excused all the while by the group's leaders and other "peaceful" supporters with "people > property" and similar logic. Using this same logic, I'm sure 99+% of Nazis were peaceful during the holocaust as well.

[nobody9999]

>this was excused all the while by the group's leaders and other "peaceful" supporters

Who? Specifically. This is important. AFAIK, no reasonable, law-abiding people advocated for or excused violence and destruction.

In fact, such violence was roundly criticized and there were calls from all quarters for the apprehension and prosecution of anyone committing violent acts.

I've heard the same refrain over and over again. But no one ever actually names names. So. Who are these people who actually advocated for violence and destruction during the protests last summer?

That isn't a rhetorical question, friend.

[wl]

I posted a status update the morning after a major riot happened in my neighborhood that consisted of a short summary of what happened, a statement that I was ok, and essentially "fuck the rioters." I could name names of friends who, in response, insisted on "people > property", "fuck the racist capitalist system", "rioting is language of the unheard", "looting is reparations," and "don't tell black people how to protest." I'm sure you can find examples of this on twitter and reddit if you look—it was unavoidable for a time.

Since I'm not willing to out my friends or comb through old social media, have an example from local media instead: https://www.wbez.org/stories/winning-has-come-through-revolt...

Also, an image macro posted to my wall, representative of the kinds of stuff I was seeing at the time: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EnCI4_9W4AAAxDf.jpg

[nobody9999]

>I could name names of friends who, in response, insisted on "people > property", "fuck the racist capitalist system"

How many of those friends are elected or appointed public officials?

And what political power/social clout does Ariel Atkins[0] have? Especially given that over 100 arrests were made and as the mayor of Chicago said[0]:

"This is not legitimate First Amendment-protected speech. … This was straight-up felony, criminal conduct"

So some of your friends and an "activist" made incendiary comments.

No one with any real power or media reach condoned or encouraged violence during the BLM protests. Not one.

If a bunch of randos mouthing off is a huge problem, how much of a problem do you consider the statements encouraging violence by some folks with real power and media reach[1][2][3][4]?

[0] https://www.wbez.org/stories/winning-has-come-through-revolt...

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz-zWeqtVo8&feature=youtu.be

[2] https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2021/01/02/gop-r...

[3] https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/die-for-something-arizo...

[4] https://thehill.com/opinion/civil-rights/461498-why-are-we-t...

[wl]

You asked someone to explain their comment about the "group's leaders and other 'peaceful' supporters." I gave you an example of both. If you want more, they're not hard to find by searching for the slogans I recited.

I am thankful that government officials and more respectable media outlets with significant reach have tended to condemn the BLM rioting. Outright endorsements probably would have made the situation worse. And even tacit support can have disastrous consequences, as we saw at the Capitol. But they're not activists and they don't speak for the movement (although who can?).

[nobody9999]

>But they're not activists and they don't speak for the movement (although who can?).

Exactly. Given the decentralized nature of BLM (dozens if not more local and regional groups), I don't think anyone can reasonably say that any one person or group speaks for the BLM movement as a whole.

As such, making the assumption that a few loud voices are representative of millions of people seems inaccurate at best, and an effort to discredit millions of people who desire positive change in the methods, focus and biases of US law enforcement, based on the violence and hyperbole of a tiny minority at worst.

And the same can be said of the vast majority of those who, however misguided, protested in support of the specious claims of a "stolen" election.

A vanishingly small minority of those people committed acts of violence and destruction too. And the millions who supported that point of view shouldn't be tarred with the same, broad brush as those who committed acts of violence and insurrection.

Both of those tiny groups should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

The difference between those two groups is that the public/elected officials who supported the BLM protestors right to exercise their First Amendment rights overwhelmingly condemned and decried the violence committed alongside those legal, lawful protests.

While many public/elected officials decried and condemned the violence and insurrection at the Capitol, a non-trivial number of public/elected officials who supported the Big Lie[0][1] of a rigged election encouraged violent action, and some may[2] have even knowingly conspired with violent factions to facilitate their insurrection.

That's a big difference. And we should acknowledge that. Not because it's a partisan thing, but because we're supposed to be a nation of laws -- and when those who are elected/appointed to make and enforce those laws actively work against our constitutional order, they must be dealt with directly and strongly -- or we risk the basis of our societal order.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie

[1] https://talkingpointsmemo.com/feature/the-capitol-mob-was-on...

[2] It's important to note that no elected officials have been charged with aiding the insurrectionists, there are indications that a few may have done so. Investigations should continue and anyone who provably (and that's a critical point) aided and assisted the violent scum who tried to subvert our constitutional government must be vigorously prosecuted -- but only if there is sufficient evidence. We are, after all, a nation of laws.