[wing-_-nuts]

>moral productive work and rearing children

I have a hard time with the idea that there is anything moral or immoral about work or leisure. In 50 years time, it's very unlikely anything 'work' I have done will matter.

Leisure activities are only immoral if they hurt yourself or others. If your activities lead you to become an overweight shut-in in poor health with few friends, sure. You could make the argument they are immoral.

I think you can be a retired dabbler and dilettante and absolutely live a 'good life'. At the end of the day, all that matters is that we live lives true to ourselves and our relationships with others. All of our accomplishments are dust in the wind, and will be forgotten.

[Damorian]

My point of moral productive work was to differentiate it from things like financial fraud or telemarketing, which require a great deal of work, but are ultimately unproductive and/or come at the expense of society. My other point about leisure/pleasure seeking is that you are always, no matter what, giving your life to something. If you give your life to leisure/pleasure it is a resource that is wasted that detracts both from your life, and the lives of any person you may have helped with that resource. I reject the notion that self destructive behavior doesn't hurt anyone else. I'd hate to live in a society of bums and drug addicts. We all do better when we all do better. Right now, fully a third of all of my work efforts (read: taxes) are wasted on retired dabblers and dilettantes who do nothing to help the rest of us. Their pleasure comes at the cost of myself, and my children. So long as you pass on your genes and your ideas, your efforts matter on Earth, and potentially our actions matter on a spiritual/supernatural level. The only respite I find in these conversations as that the hedonists will just be dust in the wind.