[baxtr]

The only feeling that’s triggered in me is being sorry for normal UK folks.

And, I think we will really know after a couple of years if this was a “mistake”. Being in the EU feels often like a “mistake”, too. I am not thinking my country should leave, but I’d love to see a major reform making the EU much lighter, less bureaucratic and focused on core topics instead of being this gigantic monster that’s deciding which popups I need to see.

[toyg]

Look up the actual numbers, chances are that you’ll find the actual EU bureaucracy is nimbler and more cost-effective than your national one, per-head. The EU budget is tiny.

The choice of matters discussed at EU level is sadly due to the agenda of national states, for the major part; in a lot of cases it’s actually what they don’t feel brave enough to touch but still think “something should be done about”, so the EU provides plausible deniability. If you feel this is not to your likes, complain to your MEPs and your national MPs.

Personally I think some issues won’t be solved until we have more European authority rather than less; a bit like the US ended up moving most powers to the federal government during its first 150 years.

[baxtr]

> Look up the actual numbers, chances are that you’ll find the actual EU bureaucracy is nimbler and more cost-effective than your national one, per-head. The EU budget is tiny.

This might very well be true. However, it is not only about costs, is it? I really doubt that the cost-benefit ratio is on the same level as my national one.

[toyg]

When you bring "benefit" into the equation, inevitably we enter the political sphere, and then everything is debatable and somewhat linked to one's priorities. Personally, just the effort in industrial and commercial standardization across the continent is worth that money, let alone the increased cooperation and power effects.

[simonh]

Just support your country negotiating opt outs of things you don't like. That's one thing I thought really worked about the EU, when we were in we had opt outs on all sorts of things. Schengen, the Euro, various employment legislation, it was very flexible. The only things we were 'forced' into were a few marginal issues like the details of the contents of labels on tin cans and such. I thought two speed Europe, really multi-speed Europe worked pretty well. It's been rather sad watching so many Brexiteers complaining about EU regulations and agreements we weren't even part of.

[bojan]

It would be a bureaucratic mess, that multi-speed Europe. The whole point is that the rules are the same everywhere so you don't need red tape between countries.

[simonh]

We actually had it, as I pointed out Britain had various opt-outs and simply didn't sign up for some side agreements, and it wasn't a problem at all.

[Lutzb]

The EU really needs to get better at educating everyone what it actually does and why it exists. How much money they spend every year and how much the EU actually costs every citzen in Europe on average.

[Glawen]

It will probably help, but let's not forget that every politicians in the UK was blaming the EU for any unpopular law they passed, rightly or wrongly. The british press was no better.

[jacquesm]

What have the Romans done for us anyway?

[baxtr]

I can't even find that sort of reply in Grahams Pyramid ;)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_D...