[andrei_says_]

I do not miss the office one bit. I socialize much mire with my colleagues via zoom meetings than I did via emails while we were in the office.

Conference room meetings felt less organized than web conferencing.

Saving 80min in daily commute on top of that gives me over 7 free hours per week, over 250h per year, enough to get an extra education.

30% or more of my colleagues commute over 2.5h per day, 12.5h per week, 48+h/month.

To send emails and make phone calls from an office.

Let that sink in.

No way.

Maybe also because I don’t come from a culture where work expands to take 100% of someone’s life. Work is work. Socializing is outside of that.

[bradlys]

I think it also depends on your commute.

I look forward to the office because I’ll always live 15 minutes away. I’ll either take my bicycle or a motorcycle. (Both of which can be fun - wheelies on either are great!)

The in person meetings were more frequent for me because I could just stop by a persons desk to see how they were doing. I can’t do that online and the culture is much more closed down. Forget about going offsite to get lunch and really hear how things are. No weekly basketball games with various people from other departments to see what’s brewing.

There are plenty of benefits to the office and I would like them to still exist. And they won’t as soon as you go remote because they rely on everyone being in one area. If you go remote, chances of seeing anyone in person will fall off a cliff compared to office life.

I’ve made some of my best friends through work and I plan to continue doing that.

[andrei_says_]

If you live in a small enough place where everyone is 10-15min from the office then you can easily organize the after hour events post covid.

But let’s not force people to spend hundreds of hours in their cars, risking their lives and the lives of strangers just so we can have the convenience to interrupt their deep work in person.

I highly recommend seeking relationships outside of work. Jobs don’t love you (back).

[bradlys]

I have friends outside of work. I’m just saying work is also a great way to make friends for certain types of people.

Not everyone lives near the office. That’s the point I’m making. I chose to live near the office (some of my coworkers chose to live further away - it is a choice, they all can afford living near the office like I have). If we start going down remote, my coworkers will move away to other states because the cost of living in the Bay Area is too high for them. Also, many of them prefer to be near old families or friends. So, their likelihood of staying near work is relatively low.

Even during covid, about half the company has moved away from the bay. Many going back to another country or moving to another coast, etc. They’ll only come back if they absolutely have to.

[andrei_says_]

I think saying that living away from the office is a choice is an incredibly privileged worldview.

I live only 40 min away from the office but will rent forever and never own property. Yes that’s a “choice” — a forced one given my preference to avoid an insanely long commute in one of the largest cities in the U.S.

If I could I’d work remotely and buy a house, possibly in a different city and maybe even country.

Permanent wfh would be the real amazing choice that opens so many possibilities.

[bradlys]

When most of my coworkers either work for FAANG or have in the past and many have a net wealth into the millions, it’s a choice to live away from the office.

Even then, you have a choice. You can live with roommates or downsize your apartment to live closer to work. That’s just how it works. It’s still a choice. It’s not like there’s 0 available options for software engineers in most any major city in the US when it comes to living near work.

Permanent WFH means you’ll never see your coworkers in person. You will not live anywhere near each other. Again, if you have no interest in seeing the people you work with then fine. But for those of us who like to create bonds with our peers, who want to know everything going on in a company, and want to climb the ladder fast... it’s gonna suck. You won’t get that in a remote company unless it has a truly radical culture.

[andrei_says_]

> Permanent WFH means you’ll never see your coworkers in person.

Why not? Making millions you could literally move to each of your coworkers’ city for a week, every week, and become besties. Or, fly all of them and their families to a retreat in Bali every quarter.

[greedo]

(Assuming COVID is solved), why couldn't you meet up with a coworker for a lunch?

[bradlys]

Why do you assume anyone would live near each other in a remote heavy environment?