[voodootrucker]

Though I definitely agree that bash's abbreviations are a barrier to entry, I think a bigger impediment not just with bash but many languages (say, Haskell) is ungooglable operator syntax.

If you didn't know what it was, how would you figure out what `$(expression)` means in bash for example?

[travv0]

Haskell has https://hoogle.haskell.org/ which lets you search functions named by symbols, function signatures, etc.

[sbelskie]

Yea, in that case I just search “bash operators” and hope to find a page that includes an example of the one I’m trying to understand.

[marcosdumay]

I think this one is called a "type of quote", not "operator".

At least Bash has a very complete man-page, you can just search for `$(` there and you'll find it. But the Bash symbols all have different functions, there are (very few) operators, quotes, variables, and probably more than I can remember.

[tck42]

bash syntax is terse enough that it's practical at the interactive command line. Thus once you take it up, you take it up for scripts AND daily interactive use. For system operators who use both frequently, between these two you quickly internalize the abbreviations. I can see it being an issue for infrequent users.

While it's not terrible, I find powershell pretty frustrating. I started off enthusiastic, especially given how archaic cmd.exe is. As mentioned elsewhere though, the advice not to use aliases, coupled with unbelievably long command names that I hate typing and can't always recall exactly - is it convert-to-csv? to-csv? no it's convertto-csv - I can never remember and I don't feel I should need to use ISE to work around this. This utterly prevents me from internalizing.

Even worse, until v3 apparently, iterating over an empty array would fail out (iterate once on $null instead of not iterating at all) and had to be protected with an explicit check. I was on v2, and it was at this point that I completely checked out and decided it wasn't worth learning and that I'd wasted my time. In general I could do what I needed with either cygwin or win32 cpython and those didn't make me feel like clawing my own eyes out.

It seems the situation has improved, but I just don't see any reason to take it up again, ESPECIALLY on linux, unless I _have to_ do dotnet stuff, and even if I do I'll explore every other available option first (ironpython? f#? is there a dotnet tcl?) TBH I avoid dotnet anyways given Microsoft's past (EEE) and current (telemetry, start menu ads, etc) behavior. Fool me once etc etc etc.