[mwfunk]

Agreed, marketing (and everyone, really) needs at least rough estimates. Software is notoriously hard to predict. As time goes on, estimates get updated as more is known about the problem and the org's ability to solve it. So, by definition the first estimate anyone makes at the beginning is the least reliable one, by a long shot, but it's something to start with that gets refined as time goes on.

I think where companies can get in trouble with software is when the initial rough estimate somehow gets blessed as the plan of record to cement in everyone else's critical path, and subsequent estimates are treated as engineering screwups rather than more informed predictions. I don't know what the solution is, because stuff like this can happen with everyone involved being super competent and having the best intentions. And sometimes there are engineering screwups, neither side is always blameless.

Power imbalances between organizations are where natural creative conflicts go bad. In a less healthy company, whichever org is on top politically tends to be blameless, whether it's fair or not, which ultimately hurts everyone's ability to do their best work because conflicts between orgs are less likely to be resolved based on what's best for the company or project as a whole. In ideal companies, orgs are balanced such that they can push back on each other for good reasons, but not for zero-sum, shit-rolling-downhill reasons. I'm pretty sure ideal companies only exist briefly or never though.