[jelliclesfarm]

There could be conflict of interest if it’s a gift considering Acton was involved with WhatsApp before Signal was formed.

And a donation would bring him deductions which he probably doesn’t want..

And there is a gift tax but since it’s a non profit, it gets different treatment. But having said that IRS scrutiny increases with such large donations.

Chances high for an IRS audit. Etc.

So many reasons why the loan aspect is a better idea.

[caturopath]

I don't understand practically any of this very well.

> There could be conflict of interest if it’s a gift considering Acton was involved with WhatsApp before Signal was formed.

Why is this conflict of interest less significant by structuring as a loan?

> And a donation would bring him deductions which he probably doesn’t want..

Why wouldn't he want them?

Is he time-shifting them or forgoing them?

> And there is a gift tax but since it’s a non profit, it gets different treatment.

A charitable donation isn't subject to gift tax.

> But having said that IRS scrutiny increases with such large donations.

> Chances high for an IRS audit. Etc.

Acton is a billionaire, his returns will receive scrutiny every year.

What's the etc? How is it better with a loan and why?

[jelliclesfarm]

Let me try. I am not a legal person.

I think there is a limit to the amount of gift in cash or other assets you can make without triggering a federal gift tax of around 40%. For an individual there is a limit of life time gift tax exemption around 11.5 million and 23 million if the gift is made as a couple.

1. A loan is a business transaction here. There is an expectation that it will be repaid. It can also be forgiven. A donation to a non profit can be ‘rewarded’ by way of tax deductions.

So Acton will profit from a similar tech he has already sold to Facebook as WhatsApp. His wealth likely came from WhatsApp sale to Facebook. It can be argued as conflict of interest.

Loan deals are very clean. Cut and dried. Any implied contract between the parties ends when the loan is repaid and the relationship is terminated.

2. I can’t speak for Acton. Or in any legal capacity, but if it were me, tax deductions to a non profit can be rife with complications because if he ever gets involved with signal as a board member or employee, it might rise questions.

3. Signal foundation is not a charity.

4. Even a billionaire ..and especially one..would prefer to keep books less complicated for IRS. Donations are often scrutinized for money laundering or tax evasion.

5. A gift invites taxes, iirc. Like..if I gifted you above 15k(and you are not my family or part of a trust/insurance beneficiary etc), you will have to pay taxes on the realized value of the gift.

6. This might have been an ideological instinct for Acton as there seems to have been some disagreement between Acton and FB on how they intended to take WhatsApp. Maybe this isn’t about money at all. Who knows. Hence the ‘Etc’.

Also I don’t know exactly what kind of non profit Signal is...

[caturopath]

> I think there is a limit to the amount of gift in cash or other assets you can make without triggering a federal gift tax of around 40%.

AFAIK, this does not apply when giving to a charity.

> I can’t speak for Acton. Or in any legal capacity, but if it were me, tax deductions to a non profit can be rife with complications because if he ever gets involved with signal as a board member or employee, it might rise questions.

And the loan won't raise similar questions? Why?

> Signal foundation is not a charity.

> A gift invites taxes, iirc. Like..if I gifted you above 15k(and you are not my family or part of a trust/insurance beneficiary etc), you will have to pay taxes on the realized value of the gift.

> Also I don’t know exactly what kind of non profit Signal is...

It's a 501(c)(3) https://signalfoundation.org/

[jelliclesfarm]

https://pp-990.s3.amazonaws.com/12_2019_prefixes_82-86/82450... : form 990 of Signal Foundation. Source: https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/824...

Brian Acton is listed as Principal Officer/President

You can’t donate to your own company and then claim it for a tax deduction.

[caturopath]

Well, you CAN donate to your own company and claim it for a tax deduction, I do it all the time.

That being said, this basic point seems like it might explain the whole thing. I can believe that he cannot be the sole (or nearly sole) donor and have the company be a 501(c)(3) rather than a private foundation or similar.

[jelliclesfarm]

Awesome. Thanks for the info.

[IG_Semmelweiss]

Ianal.

Generally speaking, noncompete agreements prevent you from taking equity / ownership or active role in competitors

They say nothing about loans. Thats from the many agreements i have come across between businesses and partners/employees

[caturopath]

You're hypothesizing he was contractually obligated not to GIVE them money, but not also to LOAN them money?