[khm]

There's also this: https://mastodon.social/@stevelord/105510025405203167 which I interpreted as some kind of invitation to disavow the project and name 'the real villains' or something, which would of course be the same deal.

The whole vibe just felt like it was more about who did what than what any of it was supposed to mean, which isn't really how we operate in general.

[_b8r0]

> There's also this: https://mastodon.social/@stevelord/105510025405203167 which I interpreted as some kind of invitation to disavow the project and name 'the real villains' or something, which would of course be the same deal.

Sure, I can see that and thanks for raising that. It wasn't intended that way but I can see how it came across. Some mediums are just poor for discussion and text is always poor for expressing context.

> The whole vibe just felt like it was more about who did what than what any of it was supposed to mean, which isn't really how we operate in general.

I got that sense from you at the time. I get that you've all been attacked heavily at different points. I don't think there's any way you couldn't have felt that vibe. I've seen people call you guys out to me since on a scale that I've not seen elsewhere.

The bit I didn't know is the how you operate in general. As an outsider that's just not info I have.

I genuinely had links and samples for Appendix L's C section - if you look at the post you'll see the drawing screenshot and references to building blocks. Not knowing how you guys worked, I perhaps wrongly assumed that this might've been welcome, but wasn't comfortable putting it in with that image there. I genuinely wasn't trying to gotcha you.

[khm]

This was the other post, which I had trouble finding quickly: https://mastodon.social/@stevelord/105510258237207655

I'm sure you can imagine how I received that: "we don't care what you actually believe, we only care about appendix L of the documentation."

People have been calling us Nazis since day one -- we have several German developers so we make VW and BMW jokes about 'German engineering' and of course all the early-cold-war German rocket scientists. It's the reason we've got the photo of Bowie at Victoria Station -- photographed while waving to the crowd, he had to repeatedly deny being a Nazi afterward, because it sure looked like a Nazi salute in the photo.

Once the actual Nazis started showing up we had to get more explicit in our condemnation of their evil, and that's okay -- rejecting hate is the easy part. Defending ourselves against the people we agree with is much harder.

[_b8r0]

> I'm sure you can imagine how I received that

Yeah I can see that now. Thanks. I guess once you process the first bit that way the rest drops off.

By the no nazis bit not meaning anything what I meant there was that with everything else it can be hard to tell what's intentional on the site and what isn't.

I honestly don't care who calls you guys nazis or not. Even if I wanted to (which I don't, I gain nothing by doing so) I wouldn't need to. There are plenty of people doing that already. The harder thing to do is to try to understand without pre-judging. Thanks for clearing a lot of this up.

EDIT: I noticed this in another subthread:

> I do think the image should be provided with context.

I'm editing here because I don't want to add to the pile-on in the other thread. You mentioned this above:

> Once the actual Nazis started showing up we had to get more explicit in our condemnation of their evil

If you want to keep the picture, what would your thoughts be on a log of that condemnation linked from somewhere in the FQA? Not necessarily Appendix L. No skin off my nose either way but I thought I'd mention it in case nobody had thought of it.

[khm]

We've been discussing it; we'll probably remove the image but add the context. Next time you find something that makes you like this, would you please send a patch (or at least report a bug)? It's sheer chance that I ran across your original Mastodon post at all.

[pvg]

'vibe' seems like an odd concern what with the imagery of an extermination camp