[grecy]

Obviously welfare isn't identical to UBI, though in my opinion it has many of the same results.

> * The stigma*

Sure, there's some stigma, but that's irrelevant in terms of the economic/financial impact to society.

> very strict "mutual obligations"

It's easy enough to fill out job applications left hand, etc. For anyone that wants it, it is extremely easy and TONS of friends from University did it for over a decade.

[danielheath]

Anecdotally, the mutual obligations have ratcheted up quite substantially since I was at uni 10-15 years ago. There have been several scandals involving accredited "Employment Services Providers" mistreating applicants, most commonly around offering them unsuitable (dangerous, to themselves or others) work at a firm controlled by the ESP.

Applicants can't refuse, or they'll lose their payment, and this is taken advantage of.