[nickjj]

> I onboarded a python dev onto elixir and he complained that elixir docs don't look like python docs, so it must be to some degree a matter of taste.

As someone who also came from Python I can't say I'm a fan of Elixir's docs either.

I often find myself having to externally search for Elixir / Phoenix resources and when you compare Python vs Elixir in that regard it's no contest. Almost every web dev problem you could think of is solved in Python with tons of examples, practical applications, blog posts, YouTube videos and the raw docs themselves. You'll almost certainly find high quality code you can at least work off of.

Where as with Elixir I find myself hitting dead ends in a lot of places and the docs often don't have enough details or context to understand something unless you're already an expert in which case you wouldn't need the docs. There's often 1 liners that expect you to have an understanding of the language that rivals its creator.

At the end of the day it's not really about the literal documentation. It's how fast you can go from being stuck to unstuck and walking away with understanding how you got from stuck to unstuck.

[mmcclure]

I'd argue you're not commenting on any specific language at all here, but rather the sheer size of the community/user base for a given language.

[nickjj]

> I'd argue you're not commenting on any specific language at all here, but rather the sheer size of the community/user base for a given language.

Yes and no. A larger community will for sure help with filling in knowledge gaps, but those gaps stem from the documentation not covering something in enough detail.

Maybe it's just me but whenever I read Elixir, Phoenix or Ecto's docs I can't really relate to them. It feels like they are written for a completely different type of person and very rarely do they focus on practical applications of something. Most of the docs feel more like a reference guide to a library's API and if you're lucky you'll get an example or 2, but there's not enough context written around it to figure out how to apply that to your specific problem. That and the docs are rarely linked to a meaningful result when Googling for stuff.

It's a much different world than Python, Ruby and PHP IMO.

[mmcclure]

Elixir's docs and guides are quite thorough and overwhelmingly focused on practical applications, I'm sorry that you clearly haven't had a good experience personally.

Again, though, reading between the lines, it sounds distinctly like your complaint is with the ecosystem and its maturity, not anything to do with the language itself. "No, it's not that!" you say, as you go on to mention three very, very mature languages with massive ecosystems that I do agree are a very different world.

Python, Ruby, and PHP are all great! It's difficult to even think of a language that has a better wealth of guides and resources out there than any of those three (with the exception of maybe JavaScript). Elixir and Erlang, two fairly niche languages that are the actual topic of conversation for this overarching thread, simply aren't comparable in that regard.

[strken]

When Ruby and Rails were first getting popular in the English-speaking world, around 2008 to 2011, the documentation and community really were excellent for their size, which was a substantial contributing factor to the growth of the language. PHP, on the other hand, was pretty appalling.

Elixir inherited some of the Ruby history and contributors, and has some of the same strengths.

[h0l0cube]

> Maybe it's just me but whenever I read Elixir, Phoenix or Ecto's docs I can't really relate to them. It feels like they are written for a completely different type of person and very rarely do they focus on practical applications of something.

My only experience before Phoenix was Django, and I have to say, even though it took a little while to wrap my head around Phoenix, it was about the same time it took to get my head around Django. Once I did, I found Pheonix to be more expressive and exceedingly productive.

[timc3]

I totally agree with you. I started learning Python about 14-15 years ago before its current popularity and its seemed to have a focus on clarity and ease of getting started. The Elixir docs less so but still ok. Ecto docs was where it started to really annoy me though.

However, after a year of developing and learning elixir I am dropping it. Just did not like it in the end, I prefer other languages and everything I like about Elixir was basically Erlang.

[dnautics]

nick, on several platforms you have done nothing but kvetch about your elixir onboarding experience. I think it's pretty good for most people, but at the same time it's just not for everyone, and I can think only one of two things is going on.

1. You drew the unlucky straw and it's not for you, for whatever reason. 2. You have a closed-minded mentality and it's keeping you from learning elixir.

[jokethrowaway]

Python community and resources are amazing!

I really don't like Python but I often find loads of code in Python which do exactly what I need, so I prototype things in Python and then port them to whatever language I'm using.

I can't say I've been impressed with Python docs, it's more the surrounding community / blog posts / stack overflow which does it for me.