[KraftKacke]

I don't think that's a very scientific approach as a vaccine may have other effects on the symptoms.

Finding lingering bacteria would be the right call. Autopsy or biopsy. And then get better testing, less "false positive".

With no specific (set of) symptoms, symptom based evidence seems inherently weak.

[atian]

Bacteria is latent. CFS is not not strep throat. Generally body-wide immune dysfunction is present.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19393200/

[monopoledance]

Yes, but we're interested in the _causal relationship aren't we?

I don't see how the linked article contributes to your argument.

Tho, it's an interesting read and a warning to those supplementing vitamin D like it's the solution to everything.

[henearkr]

This potential role of vitamin D is very exciting!

[monopoledance]

I don't know if you can read the article apart from the abstract, so just in case:

It proposes the idea for the mechanism of vitamin D supplementation to better certain conditions in the short term, but worsen health long term, by acting as a immune suppressant similar to other steroids.

Here are some excerpts:

> "Consequently, if patients with autoimmune disease succeed in killing bacteria associated with their disease state, their symptoms should be expected to escalate, at least in the short-term, as cytokines and endotoxins are generated[28]. Conversely, in cases in which the immune response has been suppressed by supplementation with an immunosuppressant such as the secosteroid 25-D, one would expect to see fewer clinical manifestations of disease in the short-term, yet more advanced disease in the long-term. At a certain point, depending on the clinical symptom or physiological markers of disease, patients supplementing with vitamin D would be expected to approach a "crossover point" when additional reduction of the immune response is eclipsed by the advancing disease (Figure 2). This outcome has been demonstrated in longitudinal studies, with studies on sicker or older patients taking less time to realize the effect."

> "The Iowa Women's Health study showed vitamin D intake seemed to protect against breast cancer in the first five years after it was taken. However, the effect began to reverse between years five and ten and was completely lost after year ten, trending towards an opposing effect[29]. Lappe et al published work, conducted over four years, that seemingly showed vitamin D might lower the incidence of colorectal cancer[30]. In a similar study looking at a larger cohort and over a longer period of time, Rossouw et al found no such effect[31]."

Why can't we have nice things, eh?!

Since, vitamin D is frequently advertised as the cure all supplement, I also want to mention "antagonistic pleiotropy" as something to keep in mind, as conceptual "immunization":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antagonistic_pleiotropy_hypoth...

Edit: OMG. I just realized, it may very well be possible that winter's VD deficiency may be needed for good health to some extent, if the body is indeed more active against lingering pathogens. This may also explain the COVID19 and VD connection, as steroids have been shown beneficial as well, maybe it's the immune suppressant quality of VD, which turns out beneficial!

[henearkr]

Thanks, but I read the article, and my enthusiasm is justified.

Because thus vitamin D would be a great solution against autoimmune diseases, among which are a lot of the cases under the umbrella Chronic Lyme Disease (it is supposed that the borreliosis can provoke an autoimmune dysfunction that continues beyond the disappearance of the bacteria).

A lot of cases of chronic fatigue would be treated by vitamin D, which is a huge news.

[monopoledance]

But they argue, it will make things worse and promote bacterial spread and growth...

They say the VD supplementation is comparable to steroid treatment. I don't see what's to be enthusiastic about, tbh.

[henearkr]

In the case where there are still Borrelia bacteria you're true, but if it can be checked that the intruders have vanished (which is the case in most cases of difficult to treat CLD or CF) then it should not pose any problem.

In the case where the Borrelia are just hiding and in a latent state, then all is a question of comparating the dynamics of the two sides: the time required by the Borrelia to wake up and proliferate, vs the time required by the vitamin D to reduce the autoimmunity to the point where the body is again desensitized about itself.

A short treatment of vitamin D would be sufficient to cure the immune problem and not long enough to allow the bacteria to take over. (Hypothetically. This is just a possibility and has to be researched, but this is exactly why I am enthusiastic.)

Also, contrary to steroidal treatment, vitamin D bolsters a part of the immunity (lymphocytes T), even if it dampens an other part. So, it would restore a balance which is lost in case of defective aquiered immunity.