[saghm]

I did a ctrl+F for the word "redox" here, since that's already modern experimental OS being written in Rust that's existed for some time, and I was surprised not to see it mentioned at all; I figured there would be a section for modern OS neophytes like me comparing and constrasting the two. Anyone have any insight into how this project differs from Redox?

[raggi]

Redox is a unix style operating system with a unix style design and ABI.

This operating system shares none of those goals, it seems to focus on a particular challenge related to the abstraction between subsystems of the operating system, following a term they call "state spilling". The goal appears to be to design an architecture that supports in-place updates of most components due to them having tightly constrained state management and inter-component dependencies.

[piaste]

> The goal appears to be to design an architecture that supports in-place updates of most components due to them having tightly constrained state management and inter-component dependencies.

Strongly reminds me of Erlang-style hot reload.

Have any OS projects based on that architecture ever got off the ground?

[pjmlp]

I wouldn't call micro-kernels a " unix style operating system with a unix style design", quite the opposite.

The only thing in common with UNIX from current Redox is the POSIX support.

[littlestymaar]

Redox isn't a kernel: it's an operating system, and being POSIX compatible definitely makes it a “unix-style” operating system.

Here, nobody claimed that the Redox kernel was unix-style, so you're fighting a strawman…

[monocasa]

A microkernel is a valid implementation for a unix like.

The way that posix filesystem semantics are a kernel provided abstraction is very "unix style".

[harry8]

Yeah totally valid implementation of which there have been a great many attempts, far too many to list here.

Precisely none of them in 3-5 decades has managed to deliver on the promise of microkernels prompting the question:

"Were huge microkernel advantages actually greatly oversold, is posix a massively debilitating factor that prevents microkernel based systems from delivering on their raison d'etre or was every single one of those implementations a poor one? [1]"

[1] including QNX

[pjmlp]

Yet, all major OSes were human lives are at risk are microkernels, go figure.

[monocasa]

Eh, stuff like older vxworks plays loose and fast with the term microkernel that wouldn't fly today. I don't even think they try to claim that it is one anymore until their most recent release where they actually added (optional) process isolation.

[harry8]

What OSes? Citation please.

Microkernel as cpu architecture abstraction layer. Such are only accidentally microkernels and not OSes at all as i understand them. They deliver on what of all those wonderful lists of microkernel benefits?

[bregma]

The POSIX layer of QNX is almost exclusively a (collection of) optional services or wrappers in userspace. In what way is it a failure or a poor implementation of a microkernel?

[harry8]

It's an inferior implementation of posix that does not display all those wonderful microkernel os benefits. If it did, we'd hardly be using competing OSes that are insecure, unstable, big-ridden etc. etc. I've never heard of a webserver running on QNX with an enhanced security benefit as a result, have you?

[pjmlp]

Except contrary to urban myths that isn't exclusive to UNIX and precedes it.

[monocasa]

I never said that was exclusive to unix likes, only that it being a microkernel doesn't preclude it from being a unix like.

[pjmlp]

"kernel provided abstraction is very "unix style" reads otherwise.

[samth]

Redox is cited in their OSDI paper. Basically they have a bunch of new ideas for writing an OS that are implemented here; Redox is only similar because they're both in Rust.

[rayrag]

I've searched for redox in Google and this is the first time I see this layout (https://imgur.com/a/tVoKxBE) in Google search pages. Anyone knows if they planning redesign?

[rattray]

I think Google is constantly fiddling with search results design

[shmerl]

Redox might have different goals which leads to different design approach.

[netsec_burn]

https://gitlab.redox-os.org/redox-os/redox/-/issues/1327

[Shared404]

How does that apply?

Of course every OS is going to have vulnerabilities. No one claims otherwise.

[intc]

Perhaps it doesn't. Interesting nevertheless.