[sk5t]

Yes, I know all about the Maillard reaction--been baking and cooking for decades. My point is that searing as a means for "locking in juices" is an old wives' tale. The reverse-sear approach is superior for steaks and roasts, although the sear-first technique is fine for braised dishes.

As for chicken legs, an approach like this one works very, very well and and is an interesting counterpoint to the common wisdom that the pan and oil must be preheated: https://www.thekitchn.com/recipe-lemon-thyme-chicken-thighs-...

[jelliclesfarm]

ok. fine.

[..] The key to cooking chicken thighs is to start them in a cold cast iron skillet. Yep, you read that right. Cold. Season them well with olive oil, salt, and pepper, and then put them skin-side down in the skillet over medium heat.

Then just don’t touch them for 14 to 15 minutes. As the pan heats up, the skin will slowly get crispy. It might pop and hiss, but all is good. As long as you watch your heat, it’s almost impossible to burn or overcook these. [..]

i suppose the above is your understanding of NOT searing? english is not my first language.

[sk5t]

Yes. Searing means fairly high/intense dry heat to produce browning/crusty texture in seconds or minutes. Such as putting a steak on a grill or very hot cast iron pan.

On the other hand, bacon cooked in a 300F oven or on low stovetop heat for half an hour may become crispy, but is not seared. Breads become brown via Maillard reaction but are not seared.

I really didn't set out to hound you about this whole searing thing...

[jelliclesfarm]

I didn’t think of it as ‘hounding’. This is a matter of interest to me because I am a classically trained chef. And I have worked and staged in restaurants including those that dabble in molecular gastronomy. There are many ways to cook meat but there is a reason we have some standard methods.

So..I also understand why it’s not always necessary to sear meat. I have cooked meat several ways including sous vide as well as slow braises. A pre cooking sear has many uses and one of them is certainly to create a barrier to ‘keep the juices in’(said colloquially) and to retain shape.

Further, food safety issues require meat to be handled in a certain way and searing ensures that the food is fit for consumption with minimal risk of contamination or undercooking it. There is a reason why we prep even before we prep food to cook it. (Ditto with fish. Most ‘fresh fish’ is frozen and then thawed. Especially if it’s from the sea. They come riddled with worms. It is a right of passage in the kitchen to be handed tweezers to pick worms. Hands down, one of the most unpleasant jobs ever)

I am not trying to nit pick, but these kind of details were important to what I did for a living some years ago and part of my job was also to train others like I have been trained. I can assure you that if we used a cold pan to start meat, we’d get a fail grade with the health inspectors in a restaurant.

[sk5t]

Happy to continue a cordial discussion, then! When do you treat searing as necessary for food safety? Certainly we don't want to hold food between 38F and 140F for longer than needed, yet there's a lot of latitude in preparation between a 2" rare ribeye and duck confit.

"Cold pan" here means room temperature, just giving extra time for fat to render out of the chicken skin, but it only takes ~5 minutes on the heat to reach 300F+ pan temperature. It's hard to imagine this is more time in the bacterial danger zone than a 160F sous vide bath?

[jelliclesfarm]

Oh!! Bacteria in food will multiply really fast at room temperature..40F begins the danger zone.

Duck confit is an entirely different preparation than steak. 145F for steaks, 165F for chicken and everything else is around 160F in the USA.

I have cooked fork tender gigot of lamb at 250F for a seven-hour lamb but I still seared it first. Standard is 375F.

Searing and into the pre heated oven must be really quick. Immediately. Most known bacteria will be killed at high temperature above 140-145 F.

A sous vide bath is air tight environment and again..like the duck confit..is not relevant here.

Cooking is chemistry. Leaving meat around at room temperature is just bad deviation from standards. I would never teach anyone to start anything on a ‘cold pan’. It’s one thing if you have been cooking for years and years and know the ‘why’ of the standards. It only comes from experience and kitchen discipline. But to put it out on an online recipe or hand out instructions when there is no way to audit the follower of the recipe is just unacceptable. My 2c.

Would I start on a cold pan? Maybe. Would I run a kitchen like that? Never! Would I teach students to start on a cold pan? Absolutely not! Not all stoves and ovens are calibrated right. We take so many things for granted and cooking is also about taming heat and fire.

But that’s just me. Meat has special handling and storage and cooking instructions because in a restaurant it affects everything from liability to failing inspections to the risk of making a small mistake that will affect so many people. I just find it very irresponsible.