[hawktheslayer]

Ironically I missed the structure that came from the vow of obedience that felt at times like I gave up all my individual freedom. I learned this gave me focus on the thing at hand, whether it was praying, meditating, cooking or cleaning. I still miss the sheer simplicity of that life.

[jkepler]

Amazing how form and freedom aren't antithetical, but are actually part and parcel of true liberty.

[geerlingguy]

It's a strange paradox, but one that I've found time and again; 'liberty' to do anything anytime can be much more restrictive than 'freedom' to choose one thing and then move on.

[Thorentis]

It is very saddening to see "modern" and "progressive" thinkers promote the idea of choice and freedom, while condemning those that choose particular lifestyles (monks, housewives, etc). Some of the happiest people in the world are the ones that choose a simple yet rewarding lifestyle. The unhappy ones, as I have invariably found, are those that are never happy with the choices of others.

[morsch]

I don't condemn housewives, I think it's important that care work is recognised as, well, work. I'd say that calling it a simple yet rewarding lifestyle makes it sound a lot less difficult than it is, it comes off as dismissive. Having gotten a taste of both worlds, I can tell you working as a software developer is a lot more simple and, at times, more rewarding.

Many people are in a situation where they can't make the choice to exclusively do care work, due to financial constraints, and much of the care work is done by women who also work for money alongside of it. So in a way, being wealthy enough to have one person concentrate on maintaining the house is lucky. At the same time, it's a risky choice, because it leads to financial dependency on the partner, and marriages tend to end.

[darkwater]

A little problem with "housewives" here: many of them didn't choose anything, nor had a voice in choosing their lives. The same applied to monks centuries ago, if you weren't the first born, your destiny would be joining a monk life. But at least that stopped a while ago, while housewives by "force" are still a reality today in many situations.

[fakedang]

But are they forced?

Ancedotal evidence but the wife of one of my cousins explicitly chose not to work in spite of having the required qualifications as a dentist, simply because she doesn't want to work and just wants to raise her children. Even though they live in an expensive city. Of course, you'd be hard pressed to find such examples these days.

On the other hand, I have cousins in marriages where both are forced to work because they live in an expensive city where one person's salary is often not enough to cover living expenses. And as trends go, I think we'll be seeing more of the workers by "force" example in the coming years.

Increasingly the trend I've observed within my large extended family and my fiancée's family (different cultures altogether) is that the wives in more affluent families tend to work as either housewives or in less taxing roles where they can still take care of the house, even if they can afford servants and carers, while the less affluent ones are required to have two breadwinners.

[tasogare]

Literally half the female population of Japan choose happily that path. And your claim about non first borns all going to become monks made no historical sense whatsoever.

[bregma]

I have never met a modern or progressive thinker who would condemn someone's lifestyle choice: I have only ever heard that as a criticism levelled by reactionaries who have only been exposed to an echo chamber. It is those people who seem to be most unhappy with the choices of others.

[JackFr]

https://youtu.be/GqmsQeSzMdw

Liberties constrain, constraints liberate.

The things we can lear from programming language theory!

[Robin_Message]

I like one of the Bene Gesserrit maxims in Frank Herbert's Dune series:

Seek freedom and be a slave to your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.

[elcritch]

I've visited a couple of Greek monasteries for a few days each over the years. Even that short time as a layman was very refreshing. Even "mundane" acts were contemplative.

[50]

> I still miss the sheer simplicity of that life.

Reminds me of this part of a Thomas Merton audio piece that I just listened to which you might enjoy (~22:50 to ~35:01): https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=1370&v=Zr3V-BnENmA&feature=y...

[trhway]

sounds similar to military.