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by tetrometal 1986 days ago
You're just making assertions and hoping that the zeitgeist continues to agree with you.

It's easy for the winning side to trot out a bunch of people that support their position (and if you try suggesting R's are on the same side as Trump supporters, then you're more divorced from reality than I feared). Trump supporters don't care. They want specific concerns addressed.

And frankly, they should be. Every election in a bona fide democracy should be characterized by the winning side steel manning the losing side's objections and addressing them one-by-one until the fraction of the population continuing to object is minuscule enough to ignore.

That didn't happen. Instead objectors got people they didn't trust trotted out before them declaring "There's NO evidence of election fraud" (demonstrably false, there's evidence of election fraud in every election), stonewalling, and running out the clock.

They should have steel-manned and addressed in a very public and forthcoming, unspun manner the more compelling arguments presented. Matt Braynard's [1] work, for example, should have been litigated to hell and back.

Undergoing these challenges is critical to maintaining democracy, but the left was hell-bent on painting a narrative that pursuing election transparency in 2020 (not 2016, mind you; they had quite a different take then when they were mucking with the electoral college themselves [2]) was somehow antidemocratic because all questions had been settled by the people only they were permitted to declare trustworthy.

So what we have now is a huge fraction of the population that feel the election has been stolen:

"Sixty-one percent (61%) of Republicans say it’s Very Likely the Democrats stole the election, but just as many Democrats (61%) say it’s Not At All Likely. Among unaffiliateds, 29% feel it’s a stolen election; 45% do not." [3]

I don't have much of a dog in this fight. I'm about as pure a libertarian/ancap as you can find. I leaned slightly Trump because I despise war, but I would have been just as happy with Biden and a republican senate. I'm telling you with open eyes (the same eyes I use to attempt to discredit the Q and Lin Wood madness on the right) that you have bought into a false narrative sold to you by the leftist media. You are nowhere in the vicinity of "woke". You are stuck in a bubble that decries other bubbles and you don't even realize it. Worse, it's the most powerful bubble that is causing the most damage to society. It is YOUR bubble that is causing the most damage to democracy in this country.

[1] https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/11/matt_braynards_...

[2] https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/12/17/how-democrats-attempt...

[3] https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/ele...

2 comments

There is no reason whatsoever to believe this election was stolen beyond unverified fabricated nonsense spread by the loser and his cronies and amplified by social media. Each state has measures in place to ensure a fair election takes place including, canvassing, the recourse of requesting a recount or pursuing litigation.

All these things already happened and it was proven over and over that there was no substantial proof of widespread fraud. If your fellow citizens cannot discern the difference between social media and reality then this does not create an obligation for the opposing side that scales upwards towards infinity with their level of insanity.

Its deeply ironic that before the election around 2/3 of republicans believed our elections were free and fair and now instead of concluding that their objections are grounded in bad faith you believe that the democrats didn't do enough to prove to their opponents that they didn't cheat. You have reversed the burden of proof and I reject your assertion. The burden of proof always lies with he would would assert a crime has been done not upon the accused to prove a negative. The alternative is utter nonsense.

Incidentally if we look at an actual source

https://morningconsult.com/form/tracking-voter-trust-in-elec...

10% of democrats believe we didn't have a fair election, 44% of independents, and a whopping 78% of republicans. On the overall ~2/3 of Americans trust our election was free and fair. The 1/3 will more or less be convinced by nothing as their feelings aren't based on reality.

These people will by and large just have to go through the next 4-16 years of Democratic control thinking the Democrats, the women, and the minorities are stealing their country.

> So what we have now is a huge fraction of the population that feel the election has been stolen

Ask yourself, who led these people to believe this.

I've been listening to both sides and I dont even think people understand where this stems from and why some people want answers.

Phil Waldron's testimony is one of them https://youtu.be/rri6flxaXww?t=4924

I'm not watching any more debunked conspiracy theories, thanks. They've had their numerous days in court.
You sure about that? How many cases were thrown out on their merits vs. procedural grounds?
And here is the issue and why the sides cannot understand whats going on.