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by disown 1994 days ago
> As a person of logic and reason and based on multiple sources of information that I consider reputable

Name it. What sources? Every major news source has been complaining about "election theft" for 4 years and warning about election theft in 2020.

The issue with corrupt elections has been around at least since 2000 ( Bush v Gore ).

Here is an NYU professor giving a lecture about it in 2008 ( about the bush election theft ).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPhL53ol0DE

You'll notice the exact same issues voting machines, ballots, etc discussed.

Any person of logic and reason will conclude there was election fraud. Both the democrats and republicans have had 4 years to prepare for it. But also reason and logic says that if both cheated then so be it. The national election system is designed specifically to be gamed. It's not just local voting that has problems - gerrymandering, voting suppression, etc., but the national election as well.

There is no doubt in my mind that Trump and Hillary cheated in 2016. I think the DNC's hubris underestimated Trump and that's why he won. I think this time, Trump's hubris cost him. I mean "china, china, china" gets old after a while.

Rational people understand that both sides cheated and the better cheater won. Only democratic political activists think there was no cheating and only republican political activists think we should overturn the election because of cheating. Rational people understand there was cheating and are willing to live with it because both sides cheated and the system is designed to make it impossible to prove cheating.

The ballots are lost in time, like tears in rain.

As I said in 2016, I will say it in 2020, let the better cheater win. If Trump and the GOP really wanted to win, they should have worked harder.

2 comments

An yet in 20 years, no one has presented any proof of actual election fraud. However there are tons and tons of evidence that foreign powers like Russia and China troll and spread millions of fake stories to fool more gullible Americans. I don't recall a single democrat saying "the dominion voting machines are fake data!" And yet here we are with a President seeing election fraud everywhere with not one solid piece of evidence. Only accusations.
> An yet in 20 years, no one has presented any proof of actual election fraud.

And yet the media, academics, politicians, etc all bring up over and over. I wonder why?

> However there are tons and tons of evidence that foreign powers like Russia and China troll and spread millions of fake stories to fool more gullible Americans

Tons? Where?

> I don't recall a single democrat saying "the dominion voting machines are fake data!"

Other than warren, klobucharm, wyden, etc?

https://www.warren.senate.gov/oversight/letters/warren-klobu...

Warren even wanted to get rid of voting machine to make our election secure.

https://time.com/5613673/warren-election-security/

Also, as I noted, issues with voting machines were mostly a democratic concern in the 2000s due to the Bush victories. Voting machine problem isn't a new issue. It's been around for decades.

Why are you confusing fraud with disinformation?
Agreed. Ours is a system of Darwinism. We provide a very high bar to clear to accuse someone of cheating and it's not often cleared. However, the opportunity is always there to fix vulnerabilities for the next election (see: Russian interference). You can't be mad if you lose, you just have to make sure it doesn't happen again (for the same reason).

See:

- Hanging chads (ballot got fixed)

- Gerrymandering (currently getting legislated away)

- Russian interference (more oversight currently)

- Electronic voting machines (no longer used...oh wait)